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Sycamore and the Marines
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Author:  bankerboy [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
SDMBA advocates have been working with the county and private land owners to find an eastern reroute of the Stowe trail. It is about 80% complete on paper. The problem is there are several land owners, including quarry owners who are hesitant to allow access, even if it crosses just a corner. Ben and Even have been busting their hump trying to get this accepted and allowed.

Racerbill (and everybody who has a horse in this race) - come on down to the advocacy meeting on Feb 1st to learn first had what is going on and what is being done. http://www.meetup.com/SAN-DIEGO-MOUNTAI ... 227169989/

There is a lot of anger out there right now. We all are upset over the latest events that transpired over the weekend. Funny thing is it is undeservedly being directed at a group that has zero control over what the military does with their land. Anybody can be a keyboard cowboy here. It takes a real effort to get involved. I am not saying SDMBA is the only game in town. Just take one evening for about 3 hours to get better informed before throwing those rocks in your glass house.
Author:  65mph12 [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
bankerboy wrote:
SDMBA advocates have been working with the county and private land owners to find an eastern reroute of the Stowe trail. It is about 80% complete on paper. The problem is there are several land owners, including quarry owners who are hesitant to allow access, even if it crosses just a corner. Ben and Even have been busting their hump trying to get this accepted and allowed. house.


I'm curious as to what happened with the original deal.

The 2006 NDAA authorized transfer of the land:
http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/PL109-163.pdf

"PART 2—NAVY CONVEYANCES
SEC. 2851. LAND CONVEYANCE, MARINE CORPS AIR STATION,
MIRAMAR, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA.
(a) CONVEYANCE AUTHORIZED.—Subject to subsection (c), the
Secretary of the Navy may convey to the County of San Diego,
California (in this section referred to as the ‘‘County’’), all right,
title, and interest of the United States in and to a parcel of real
property, including any improvements thereon and appurtenant
easements thereto, consisting of approximately 230 acres along
the eastern boundary of Marine Corps Air Station, Miramar, California,
for the purpose of removing the property from the boundaries
of the installation and permitting the County to preserve the entire
property as a public passive park/recreational area known as the
Stowe Trail."

An MOA drawn up:
http://www.diannejacob.com/initiatives/ ... with-navy/

So what happened?
Author:  bankerboy [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
As I understand it, the deal fell through. The land could have been deeded to the city as a grant but the marines would not do that. The marines wanted full market value they assessed at more than $25 million. The city did not have the money and the federal government was not willing to intervene or assist.
Author:  65mph12 [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
bankerboy wrote:
As I understand it, the deal fell through. The land could have been deeded to the city as a grant but the marines would not do that. The marines wanted full market value they assessed at more than $25 million. The city did not have the money and the federal government was not willing to intervene or assist.



$25 Mil???? :shock:
I'm not an assessor, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but is that FMV for 230 acres of undeveloped canyon 10 years ago? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I paid waaayyyy to much for my little house 10 years ago.
Author:  k2rider [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
http://sdmba.com/site/sdmba-responseupd ... s-on-mcas/
Author:  FastRich [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
So rather than facilitating a common sense solution to continue trail access through Sycamore (far from any range or ridgeline that could possibly impact anything on the base) this clown is gonna throw a tantrum like a spoiled 3 year old about a boundary line that is different on every map out there. I know from the history of this that there's money at the center. The base wants money from the city/county but the care level is below zero when it come to mountain bike access anywhere around San Diego. SDMBA just rolls over EVERY SINGLE TIME there is any kind of an access issue or challenge! I've tried to support them but it's straight up useless. There's nothing fun about mountain biking when I'm constantly worried about getting hassled for being on some disputed trail. Developers just pay off the enviornmental kooks and pave it over anyway. Basically done with all this doughebaggery and ready to sell my bike!
Author:  Dirtrider [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
[quote="FastRich"]So rather than facilitating a common sense solution to continue trail access through Sycamore (far from any range or ridgeline that could possibly impact anything on the base) this clown is gonna throw a tantrum like a spoiled 3 year old about a boundary line that is different on every map out there. I know from the history of this that there's money at the center. The base wants money from the city/county but the care level is below zero when it come to mountain bike access anywhere around San Diego. SDMBA just rolls over EVERY SINGLE TIME there is any kind of an access issue or challenge! I've tried to support them but it's straight up useless. There's nothing fun about mountain biking when I'm constantly worried about getting hassled for being on some disputed trail. Developers just pay off the enviornmental kooks and pave it over anyway. Basically done with all this doughebaggery and ready to sell my bike![/quote

Then the terrorist win....
Author:  GForce [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
Dirtrider wrote:
FastRich wrote:
So rather than facilitating a common sense solution to continue trail access through Sycamore (far from any range or ridgeline that could possibly impact anything on the base) this clown is gonna throw a tantrum like a spoiled 3 year old about a boundary line that is different on every map out there. I know from the history of this that there's money at the center. The base wants money from the city/county but the care level is below zero when it come to mountain bike access anywhere around San Diego. SDMBA just rolls over EVERY SINGLE TIME there is any kind of an access issue or challenge! I've tried to support them but it's straight up useless. There's nothing fun about mountain biking when I'm constantly worried about getting hassled for being on some disputed trail. Developers just pay off the enviornmental kooks and pave it over anyway. Basically done with all this doughebaggery and ready to sell my bike![/quote

Then the terrorist win....


Sorry to differ but this isn't SDMBA's or the County's fault. I share the anger and frustration with the whole thing. I'd heard the Marines wanted a ridiculous amount for the property but I hadn't heard the 25 million figure. Sounds to me like they just didn't want to give it up and demanded a ridiculous price knowing that would kill the deal in its tracks. The NDAA authorized reverting it back to public use and it was a public road to begin with. Somebody in the Fed must have done a study to determine the land wasn't critical so their arguments about potential old ordnance, sensitive areas, gun range buffers, blah, blah, blah don't fly with me. They've found old ordnance over the years in MTRP and Tierrasanta so that stuff could be literally anywhere in the base vicinity. As for that thing about needing a buffer zone for the rifle range, much of the Stowe trail near the base boundary is right by houses and a campground so all those people are potentially in danger of a stray round falling too. Just my take on the whole thing...

I'm curious to see what SDMBA has in mind for an alternative. I've tried several different routes from Santee to Goodan that avoid military property and all of them involved at least a couple steep, rocky climbs and lots of cobbles on the ridge lines.
Author:  Dustin [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
My understanding is that the marines never wanted to sell it. It isn't exactly in their organizational culture to "surrender" land to anyone. They were essentially pressured to the table by elected officials who were themselves taking heat, but that wasn't enough to force them to negotiate a deal that the county/city could realistically make happen.

But others with more history might know the details for sure.
Author:  Ray Dolor [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
Then the terrorist win....[/quote]


That's wrong. WE are the "New" insurgents. And as the new tenants of that federal land, the USMC has placed a bounty on each mountain bike of around $500. That's the going rate, more or less. I'm sure it will go up pretty soon.
Freedom isn't Free. I saw that on a senior citizens' bumper. Semper Fi, etc...

Does anybody miss the days when Miramar was under the direct purview of the Navy?
I sure do.

I tell you what. I, for one, am going to direct all of my energy to building new, fun, and LEGAL trails, like whats' going on up at Black Mountain. Expecting the Marines to act reasonably and also to be 'nice' neighbors is futile.
Author:  Bulldozer27 [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
65mph12 wrote:
bankerboy wrote:
As I understand it, the deal fell through. The land could have been deeded to the city as a grant but the marines would not do that. The marines wanted full market value they assessed at more than $25 million. The city did not have the money and the federal government was not willing to intervene or assist.



$25 Mil???? :shock:
I'm not an assessor, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but is that FMV for 230 acres of undeveloped canyon 10 years ago? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I paid waaayyyy to much for my little house 10 years ago.


Given that 2006 was the height of the bubble, $25M doesn't seem absurd at that time. Actually, it wouldn't be that bad of a deal even now as it works out to roughly $109K/acre. If that were on offer now, some developer might really have to look into that.
Author:  Dustin [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
It's the county/city's unwillingness/unableness to pony up these kinds of sums that sometimes leads to a deal with the wildlife agencies to help out. But that comes with some pretty serious restrictions on how much recreation can take place. Still, better than being covered by McMansions or patrolled by marines. Wonder if the county has investigated the possibility with USFS/CDFW.
Author:  FastRich [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
Bulldozer27 wrote:
Given that 2006 was the height of the bubble, $25M doesn't seem absurd at that time. Actually, it wouldn't be that bad of a deal even now as it works out to roughly $109K/acre. If that were on offer now, some developer might really have to look into that.


This exact thought hit me like a ton of bricks earlier today! It makes perfect sense. The Fanita ranch tract or whatever which borders that land is already owned by a developer. This equals deep pockets. The Sea going bellhops sell the land to the developer, the developer pays off the enviro goobers to do their stupid little mitigation studies and cry about habitat and fairy shrimp for about 6 minutes. Then they blow in a bunch of houses and cul de sacs possibly creating a 10' wide DG path with a nice split wood rail fence and landscaping as an easement between the agreed upon border between the base and the new development. They put up signs on the fence warning of unexploded ordnance, rattlesnakes, yetis, nuclear waste, ninjas, sharks with lazers, tickle monsters and a bunch of other shit just beyond said fence. It's capitalism at it's finest! Everybody wins!!! Except mountain bikers.....fuck those guys!

Here's another brain buster for ya.....The whole "we can't fence the base" is complete bullshit too. There's fences around Santee, Lakes, the water thing, whatever that thing is at the end of Fanita, all behind the neighborhood and a laundry list of other huge fnces out there.

These assclowns need to think about the shit they're spewing to keep people out and come up with something at least a little bit believable to anyone with an IQ 1/2 a point above licking windows. Or maybe they don't. Seems like people believe anything. You can tell SDMBA that a trail needs to be closed because the dirt's brown and their response is to roll over and bite the pillow.
Author:  GForce [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
Dustin wrote:
My understanding is that the marines never wanted to sell it. It isn't exactly in their organizational culture to "surrender" land to anyone. They were essentially pressured to the table by elected officials who were themselves taking heat, but that wasn't enough to force them to negotiate a deal that the county/city could realistically make happen.

But others with more history might know the details for sure.


Between the ridiculous asking price and all the excuses about ordnance, suddenly needing buffer zones for their ranges, trail users getting hurt or being attacked by wild animals, etc., that's my take on this whole thing too. And I've really tried to research the issue and be objective about it.
Author:  evdog [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sycamore and the Marines
FastRich gets my vote for Internet Tough Guy of the year!
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