Dirt Treaders :: View topic - Mountain Biking -Forging ahead

Mathew - you're a good guy and all, but this has got to be the winner of "Dumbest question of the week.". :roll:

If you're actually serious, the answer is; In every meaningful way

ozzer wrote:

Full adult objective article here.
http://motocross.transworld.net/news/el ... urbo-levo/

From the article:

"On Monday nights after work, we have a fairly good group of guys that cycle through the Calavera Hills trails near our office. Truth be told, a wide grin crept across my face when I roosted up the first climb, passing everyone in the group"

"...but I’ve always made sure to only ride the bike on trails that are approved for motor vehicle use."

avidtest wrote:

Mathew - you're a good guy and all, but this has got to be the winner of "Dumbest question of the week.". :roll:

If you're actually serious, the answer is; In every meaningful way

I think he's serious, and making a point you missed. He's advocating for that other devil, your local land manager, who is going to ask that exact rhetorical question. And to him the answer is obvious; they're not different in one very meaningful way: they both have a motor.

I'm just trying to keep the conversation going -- I like your proposal of a DT Renaissance. You don't actually know my opinion on Ebikes, and I'm not above some minor trolling. I've already acknowledged that "I mock the thing I am to be". Hell, I am the perfect target customer for one of those things. Why does everything have to be us vs. them, black & white? Ebikes are cool or Ebikes are the devil's spawn? The reality is that it's a complex issue and many shades of gray. The land use issues are real. So is consumer demand. Slippery slopes do exist.

Anything that makes riding a bike more fun is okay with me.

OldDogDan wrote:

Word, Dan.Those that know me and have been riding with me would know, if you read in between the lines in my posts, I'm really just being a jackass because, well, mountain biking taken seriously is just boring as hell.

Dan, I'm not trying pigeonhole your post and your opinion on the surface of the conversation about eBikes. What I am hoping to get is more substance as to why anyone is opposed to or hate eBike beyond just throwing a blanket statement of well, it has a motor and it poses trail access issues. Because it sounds hypocritical when no one is crying foul on illegal trail building on sensitive officially mapped designated ecological preserve land or public land (or even private land which is still legally trespassing) with posted off trail use restrictions or me blasting responsibly down a public legal trail on a downhill bike twice the average acceptable speed on fat meaty tires with hard and fast stopping brakes (translate to incidental trail damage).

On a personal level, I still hold reservations on these pedal assist bike................until the weight drops to around 30 lbs. Hahahahahaha.

Love you, guys.
XOXO

#1 comment to the PB vid: "Still don't want one but good try"

that the average person, including those that might do enforcement, have no idea what's illegal and what's not.

Author:	avidtest [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Popped over to Pinkbike just now. I enjoyed the video below: They're killing it...on ebikes. So then I start reading and see this quote, "In fact, major brands have told me that e-bikes sales are surpassing combined mountain bike sales numbers". Wow..

Author:	OldDogDan [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
avidtest wrote: Mathew - you're a good guy and all, but this has got to be the winner of "Dumbest question of the week.". If you're actually serious, the answer is; In every meaningful way I think he's serious, and making a point you missed. He's advocating for that other devil, your local land manager, who is going to ask that exact rhetorical question. And to him the answer is obvious; they're not different in one very meaningful way: they both have a motor.

Author:	OldDogDan [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
ozzer wrote: Full adult objective article here. http://motocross.transworld.net/news/el ... urbo-levo/ From the article: "On Monday nights after work, we have a fairly good group of guys that cycle through the Calavera Hills trails near our office. Truth be told, a wide grin crept across my face when I roosted up the first climb, passing everyone in the group" "...but I’ve always made sure to only ride the bike on trails that are approved for motor vehicle use."

Author:	ozzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
OldDogDan wrote: ozzer wrote: Full adult objective article here. http://motocross.transworld.net/news/el ... urbo-levo/ From the article: "On Monday nights after work, we have a fairly good group of guys that cycle through the Calavera Hills trails near our office. Truth be told, a wide grin crept across my face when I roosted up the first climb, passing everyone in the group" "...but I’ve always made sure to only ride the bike on trails that are approved for motor vehicle use." If you're really just going to keep dovetailing your points with the "it has a motor" argument and keep sticking to the stubborn ideal (for you) principles, I politely urge you to cease riding your conventional bike on any and every unauthorized built trails. Consciously riding on illegal trail is just as bad in principle for the sake of trail access and rapport with land managers advocacy efforts have ever so excruciatingly crafted. I anticipate that the counter argument to this is the "well, we fear and think that intrusion of motorized evil eBikes is just the straw that broke the camel's back as far as trail access..blah blah blah (Rush Limbaugh mumbling). EBikes, not the new cut trails on or illegal trail features built every after rain or strava line options, strava wars, etc.. no not those. It's the motor. Ride on approved human powered trails only, people. This sounds fun If I hear one more it has a motor argument, I will quit paying my IMBA dues in 2017.

Author:	OldDogDan [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
I'm just trying to keep the conversation going -- I like your proposal of a DT Renaissance. You don't actually know my opinion on Ebikes, and I'm not above some minor trolling. I've already acknowledged that "I mock the thing I am to be". Hell, I am the perfect target customer for one of those things. Why does everything have to be us vs. them, black & white? Ebikes are cool or Ebikes are the devil's spawn? The reality is that it's a complex issue and many shades of gray. The land use issues are real. So is consumer demand. Slippery slopes do exist.

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Author:	avidtest [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
OldDogDan wrote: avidtest wrote: Mathew - you're a good guy and all, but this has got to be the winner of "Dumbest question of the week.". If you're actually serious, the answer is; In every meaningful way I think he's serious, and making a point you missed. He's advocating for that other devil, your local land manager, who is going to ask that exact rhetorical question. And to him the answer is obvious; they're not different in one very meaningful way: they both have a motor. It's possible. Those lines are too close together for me to read through though. I was figuring that I simply succumbed to being trolled. While not having ridden an ebike, my personal fear is that it would make those painful climbs too easy. I need those as part of my diabetes and and obesity prevention program. Obviously, many others will feel differently and will relish the ability to crest many more climbs during a ride and experience more DH than if they were on an antiquated human powered bike. And that's going to be too appealing to pass up for many. And since I don't know the effort it takes, perhaps it's possible that if you double the amount of climbs, you'd end up exerting the same amount of effort? In any case, it's obvious that the Borg are here and they are multiplying. You will be assimilated...

Author:	Kimba [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Thanks for posting this ozzer, very enlightening on a controversial topic. The TransMotocross article was excellent in explaining how the Levo works and rides. The "gateway drug" aspect is the point that resonated most as beneficial. I think we all know friends who want to ride with us but won't due to fitness. Anything that makes riding a bike more fun is okay with me.

Author:	AndYeti [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Just maybe these e-bikes will get more people out on the trails, resulting in more people wanting to ride more trails, resulting in more people voicing their displeasure of the current trail situations. Power in numbers could be a powerful thing. In the TransMotocross article, he mentioned a 70 mile ride. Imagine being able to bust out a 70 mile ride like it was a 30 mile ride effort wise. Thats just nuts.

Author:	Dirtrider [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Just got back from riding up the Volcano in the rain on my new eRide

Author:	ozzer [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
OldDogDan wrote: I'm just trying to keep the conversation going -- I like your proposal of a DT Renaissance. You don't actually know my opinion on Ebikes, and I'm not above some minor trolling. I've already acknowledged that "I mock the thing I am to be". Hell, I am the perfect target customer for one of those things. Why does everything have to be us vs. them, black & white? Ebikes are cool or Ebikes are the devil's spawn? The reality is that it's a complex issue and many shades of gray. The land use issues are real. So is consumer demand. Slippery slopes do exist. Word, Dan.Those that know me and have been riding with me would know, if you read in between the lines in my posts, I'm really just being a jackass because, well, mountain biking taken seriously is just boring as hell. Dan, I'm not trying pigeonhole your post and your opinion on the surface of the conversation about eBikes. What I am hoping to get is more substance as to why anyone is opposed to or hate eBike beyond just throwing a blanket statement of well, it has a motor and it poses trail access issues. Because it sounds hypocritical when no one is crying foul on illegal trail building on sensitive officially mapped designated ecological preserve land or public land (or even private land which is still legally trespassing) with posted off trail use restrictions or me blasting responsibly down a public legal trail on a downhill bike twice the average acceptable speed on fat meaty tires with hard and fast stopping brakes (translate to incidental trail damage). On a personal level, I still hold reservations on these pedal assist bike................until the weight drops to around 30 lbs. Hahahahahaha. Love you, guys. XOXO

Author:	ozzer [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Kimba wrote: Anything that makes riding a bike more fun is okay with me. I live by that creed, foo. All bikes are fun. With that said, now could we get another DT ride? New Year's Extravaganza? Maybe Tour of Idyllwild? Vail would do too. Fireroad climb is perfect for eBikes. Even DTers who have taken me seriously with my eBike trolling as of late and now can't stand me are still welcome. It doesn't change my opinion or feelings as long as we all have fun on our bikes outside. Or Tour of Simpson Park.

Author:	evdog [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
#1 comment to the PB vid: "Still don't want one but good try"

Author:	k2rider [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
ozzer wrote: OldDogDan wrote: Word, Dan.Those that know me and have been riding with me would know, if you read in between the lines in my posts, I'm really just being a jackass because, well, mountain biking taken seriously is just boring as hell. Dan, I'm not trying pigeonhole your post and your opinion on the surface of the conversation about eBikes. What I am hoping to get is more substance as to why anyone is opposed to or hate eBike beyond just throwing a blanket statement of well, it has a motor and it poses trail access issues. Because it sounds hypocritical when no one is crying foul on illegal trail building on sensitive officially mapped designated ecological preserve land or public land (or even private land which is still legally trespassing) with posted off trail use restrictions or me blasting responsibly down a public legal trail on a downhill bike twice the average acceptable speed on fat meaty tires with hard and fast stopping brakes (translate to incidental trail damage). On a personal level, I still hold reservations on these pedal assist bike................until the weight drops to around 30 lbs. Hahahahahaha. Love you, guys. XOXO I absolutely think most people do equate illegal trail building as a huge negative aspect to trail access. You can label it as a "blanket statement" or whatever you want but I personally believe that most anti e-bike folks would say that losing trail access and/or getting new trails open is their biggest concern. However, if you're specifically trying to shame people for riding trails that are technically illegal at Calavera, I call bullshit on that because they are essentially established trails that the average person, including those that might do enforcement, have no idea what's illegal and what's not. As somebody who used to have to enforce similar violations, I can tell you that until there is posted signage giving public notice,. those trails are OPEN to all. Well, maybe not e-bikes

Author:	ozzer [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
evdog wrote: #1 comment to the PB vid: "Still don't want one but good try" No one is forcing anyone other than the haters to close our minds.

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Author:	ozzer [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
k2rider wrote: that the average person, including those that might do enforcement, have no idea what's illegal and what's not. Just based on one of the largest public land management agency, USFWS, "established" trail is not even defined in their code. Oh look here, Trail: A linear route managed for human-powered, stock, or OHV forms of transportation or for historic or heritage values. Holy shit!!!!! Allowable for OHV access (mainly on Federal Land). (Cited source http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/program ... 4_2007.pdf ) I still don't want an eBike (unless it's 30 lbs or less). That's just cycling hermit societal suicide if I ride one but hell, it's so fun to mess with y'all here about it and bring a bit more venom back in this otherwise dead board.