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Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
http://dirttreaders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17146		 Page 14 of 17
Author:  ozzer [ Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
AndYeti wrote:
I see power in numbers honestly. A larger user group gives us a louder voice in helping our cause with the red tape.



I still believe that mountain bikers are just as salty as surfers when it comes to "bringing in the numbers." I like seeing people, however many, enjoy the same thing that brings joy to me.

Most recently, I got passed by two guys on Spesh Turbo Levo at Greer while I was briskly climbing on the fire road from the bottom of Revo to Jumping Mouse last Sunday. They were mashing on their cranks too at a much higher cadence but fuck!!! I resented..... I resented the fact that eBikes have not evolved to a lightweight package yet. I'm hopeful. Look where cell phone batteries evolved from.

This Focus Raven 2 Fazua is already blurring the line. Marketed as the eBike for the fit, whatever that means. I'm guessing it's only packing a 3rd of the "standard" assisted power output thus a smaller battery and motor.
Image
Image

The system, comprising the 1.91 kg motor unit and 1.38 kg 250 Wh battery, can be detached. The 1.31 kg bottom bracket gearbox is the only fixed system element on the frame. This detachable construction means that any FAZUA Evation-equipped bike can be ridden without the battery and motor while a cover will protect the now-empty area. -- for those days you get invited to rides with eBike haters.
Author:  k2rider [ Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
I wouldn't even notice that was an ebike. I know they do have different power output rules/limits in Europe so that could be to their advantage when designing an ebike that doesn't look like an ebike.
Author:  k2rider [ Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
AndYeti wrote:
I see power in numbers honestly. A larger user group gives us a louder voice in helping our cause with the red tape. There will always be the ones that portray our passion as destruction to wilderness, but if we can embrace this movement and increase our voices ten-fold, we can drown them out. 25% growth is a pretty big number and it looks like its just going to increase. Let's Embrace this Emovement.

"There's tremendous opportunity to get a generation of people for whom suffering isn't their thing," Cocalis said. "Ebike riders get the enjoyable part of cycling without the massive suffering of climbing huge hills."


http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/17/technol ... index.html


It's not hard to have the largest growth when your numbers are so minuscule to begin with. On top of that, the overwhelming majority of ebikes being sold are commuter/cruiser type to begin with and not mountain bikes. Somebody over at MTBR posted a study that indicated that ALL ebikes sold make up less than 3% of all total bikes purchased by consumers. They were not able to differentiate what % of that 3% were mountain bikes.
Author:  evdog [ Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
AndYeti wrote:
A larger user group gives us a louder voice in helping our cause with the red tape. There will always be the ones that portray our passion as destruction to wilderness, but if we can embrace this movement and increase our voices ten-fold, we can drown them out.

Don't bet on it - either of those statements.

Numbers don't cut through red tape. Only corporate donations to politicians seem to. Mountain bikers already have the numbers to push for more access but the majority of riders won't lift a finger to contribute to advocacy, which limits progress. E-bikes will attract the lazy and the clueless (my opinion) - not exactly the type of people who will help much with advocacy. We will still be drowned out by angry hikers.

AndYeti wrote:
"There's tremendous opportunity to get a generation of people for whom suffering isn't their thing," Cocalis said. "Ebike riders get the enjoyable part of cycling without the massive suffering of climbing huge hills."

One of the saddest statements I've seen in a long time... Those are the exact types of people I ride bikes to get away from.
Author:  J.A.M. [ Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
^^^^ I agree Ev.
Author:  Kimba [ Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Ozzer, thank you for prompting this discussion. It is timely, informative and addresses the future.

Money honey: There is no question that the bottom line is driving e-bikes. E-bikes are an expensive new thing for current riders and new riders to buy. Manufacturers, distributors, retailers and media are businesses who have and always will be looking for and pushing the next new thing.

This new thing is pushing definitions, and raising new issues. Traditional view: Bicycles are human powered. E-bikes, mopeds and motorcycles are motor-driven. E-bike view: It's all good, pedal assist after all.

Issue: Is it? Putting subjective passion or resentment aside and focusing on objective trail access consequences, the consensus is that prior distinctions of motor versus non motor access are not likely to change. So adding e-bikes to pedal trails has unknown implications to non motor access trails causing discomfort among some.

Question: Has this been tested? In other words are there examples of land managers of pedal only trails saying yes or no to e-bikes, and if so what is the justification for the decision?

Good night bros! Ride on!
Author:  evdog [ Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
USFS and BLM seem to be classifying e-bikes, regardless of what class, as motorized and therefore not allowed on non-motorized trails. No e-bike signs are up in Sedona and some other places. CA state parks stated at one point e-bikes would be allowed but I keep hearing of them being prohibited in various parks. A lot of county parks like in OC do not allow them. San diego seems too busy counting fairy shrimp to know e-bikes even exist. Is anyone enforcing in places where they are not allowed? There is probably about as much enforcement as there is where trails are hikers only, which is to say probably not.

I'm sure I've said this at least twice in this thread already - I don't think the risk with e-bikes is that pedal bikes will lose access to trails we already have access to. Where it will shoot us in the foot is trying to get access to new places like wilderness, pct etc. The HOHAs already wail and moan that mountain bikes will ruin their solitude and isolation. Once e-bikers set a precedent of riding everywhere they're not supposed to, it will be hard to argue that they won't do the same in Wilderness. And there goes the argument about "human powered".
Author:  325racer [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
A sub forum called Dirt-e-treaders was proposed last weekend, how does that get started...
Author:  Ld00d [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
325racer wrote:
A sub forum called Dirt-e-treaders was proposed last weekend, how does that get started...


I dunno. I feel like we have way too many subforums as it is.
Author:  ajdonner [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
So are we supposed to yield to people climbing on e-bikes?

I was enjoying my well earned descent back down from Raptor Ridge last weekend, pulled over for a couple of guys flying up and the first guy must've noticed I was looking for the battery, "yeah, I'm cheating." he says, grinning. I yelled, "BOOOOOO!!" ignoring the sudden urge to give him a not so gentle nudge. JK, kinda...
Author:  Big Clyde [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
ajdonner wrote:
So are we supposed to yield to people climbing on e-bikes?

I was enjoying my well earned descent back down from Raptor Ridge last weekend, pulled over for a couple of guys flying up and the first guy must've noticed I was looking for the battery, "yeah, I'm cheating." he says, grinning. I yelled, "BOOOOOO!!" ignoring the sudden urge to give him a not so gentle nudge. JK, kinda...



That’s a great question.
I’m a believer in the climbers
have the right away.

What to do?


:cheers:
Author:  k2rider [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
At least they’re legal out there at Hodges. We were out at Big Laguna and I refused to yield to a guy on his ebike. He tried to chastise me but quickly shit his pie hole when I told him he was riding illegally and could only give the standard “I’m not hurting anybody” line.
Author:  Dirtrider [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
Big Clyde wrote:
What to do?
:cheers:


Donkey kick? :mrgreen:

until I get my eBike
Author:  ajdonner [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
k2rider wrote:
At least they’re legal out there at Hodges.


Really? I assumed otherwise.

TBH I could see using an e-bike once I'm old just to keep getting out and covering some miles (on legal trails/fire roads, of course). My dad is getting up there in age and has some health issues which have curtailed his hiking/birding hobby. I told him I saw a couple of other old coots at Hodges rattling along sitting on top of those motorized four wheel (little wheels and front basket) scooter things with their binoculars around their necks headed from the freeway to the pedestrian bridge. Gotta do what ya gotta do!
Author:  k2rider [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mountain Biking -Forging ahead
As far as I know, they're legal at Hodges. It's not NFS or BLM lands and I *thought* I've read where the City of SD says they are okay on the trails. I could be mistaken. I can't say I've ever seen an ebike at Hodges. I've now seen two at Calavera. One was a beach cruiser down by the lake and the other was in the way back.

Now, now, we're all getting old and qualify for our AARP benefits. I'm the youngest in our group at 53 and go up to 63.5 in our group. Obviously ebike fans don't agree but I wouldn't have the same sense of accomplishment after getting to the top of some climb if I hadn't earned it 100%.
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