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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 am 
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danimal wrote:
So lets say you somehow do get a flat with tubeless, you can put a tube in there and ride back to the car right? and then use the air compressor when you get back? Basically, I am concerned about going tubless because of the rare chance I get do get a flat in the middle of nowhere, I dont want to have to walk it back? So in essence im asking how hard it is to fix a tubeless flat on the trail?


And it also sounds like if you use Stan's system, each time you want to put on a new tire (tire blow out or not) you have to go through the re-sealing process again!
Also is it hard to hand pump air into a stan's wheel because the goop is obstructing the valve opeing. If so does CO2 solve that problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:42 am 
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Jimmy Snooka wrote:
danimal wrote:
So lets say you somehow do get a flat with tubeless, you can put a tube in there and ride back to the car right? and then use the air compressor when you get back? Basically, I am concerned about going tubless because of the rare chance I get do get a flat in the middle of nowhere, I dont want to have to walk it back? So in essence im asking how hard it is to fix a tubeless flat on the trail?


And it also sounds like if you use Stan's system, each time you want to put on a new tire (tire blow out or not) you have to go through the re-sealing process again!
Also is it hard to hand pump air into a stan's wheel because the goop is obstructing the valve opeing. If so does CO2 solve that problem?



If you do get a cut in the tire you can super glue the tire shut if it is small.

If it is big than yes, you will have to put a tube in it, just like normal.

However tubeless or non-tubeless you will need a patch inside the tire so the tube doesn't come out the where the cut is.

You do NOT need an air compressor, for the non-UST tires it does help having one, for UST tires I have used a hand pump, much quicker than waiting for my compressor to fill with air.

No goop in the way when the valve stem is at the top as sealant will be at the bottom of the tire.

Sealing a tire takes 5 minutes max!! just seal a new tire 24hrs before you use.Just check on it a couple of times the day you put the sealant in for non-UST tires. UST tires have never needed sealing, though I still do the video way just to coat th whole tire.

When putting CO2 in make sure the cap is at the top, as the CO2 may dry the sealant up.

Here's the instructional video.

http://www.notubes.com/movieinstall.php


Again the pro's out weigh the con's. I was a die hard tube guy, but after running tubeless I can say I love it.

Oh Yeah that crow tastes like shiat. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:00 pm 
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I run Kenda small blocks ( regular not UST ) tubeless with Stan's. About 2000 miles 2 set of tires and no flats. I can run them down to 26 lbs no problems. I like the light weight too.
If you try it with regular tube type tires they will leak from the sidewalls for a little while but the sealer will take care of it. You have to add sealer once in a while but I think its well worth it to never fix a flat.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:22 pm 
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Alright...all this tubeless talk keeps spurring my need for tubeless.
Yesterday I converted my rear wheel to tubeless.
Fairly painless. I went the inexpensive (cheap) route and it seems to be working. I got off work early today so I hit up Calavera for a 14 mile jaunt...
Most of you know my wheels are quite heavy as I run DH Tires and DH Tubes and about half a pound of slime, couple that with the heavy Azonic wheel and it adds up to just under 8lbs for my rear wheel...yup...7.8lbs
So, I decided to see how it felt to roll Tubeless back there.
At first I didn't notice too much of a difference in rolling resistance, but about a mile into the ride I could feel it in my legs...not so much drag..cool. At the end of the ride I could totally tell in my legs...they weren't wet noodles!!! Yah!!!!
In all I lost about 1lb and 3 quarters to 2lbs from the rear.
I like to run low pressure as it is and I set this up the same way. But because I'm used to running 2-ply DH tires I could feel the sidewalls flexing a little more than usual, and then I felt bottom out on my rim...whoopsie!! Alright, add a few psi...good to go.

Here is what I did.

Bought UST Tire...Kenda 2.35 Nevegal DTC...wanted Stick-E but no luck in finding one.
Bought Stans Yellow Rim Tape.
Already had Stans Liquid.
Bought Mavic Stem.

The Azonic rims have a wierd inside profile so instead of one layer of Tape I wrapped it twice (the tape is light...5 grams per wrap so no penalty there) making sure to overlap the stem hole by 2 inches at beginning and end of wrap. This tape is super sticky, so it is imperative to get it in there and pressed down right the first time...check.

Took a small phillips head screwdriver and punched a very small hole at valve stem hole.

Inserted valve stem into hole and tightened the holy hell out of it.

Installed the tire...smacked the tire all the way around to get the tire bead as close as possible to the rim. Removed the valve core from stem and filled tire with air from my compressor to get the bead to seat...this took a couple attempts but didn't take long to do. I heard the bead "popping into place and kept the air on it to make sure all bead was seated well. I about 2 to 2 1/2 scoops of Stans liquid in through the opened valve and replaced the core, filled the tire with air...about 50 psi, and followed the Stans directions for soaping wheel and shaking and rotating wheel to get the liquid to work its magic. Layed on the bucket as directed, came back a bit later check to see if the underside was sealed..yep, now shake and rotate and set on the bucket on the other side for awhile.

I checked on it later that evening and it hadn't lost any air. So I pressured down to my normal riding pressure and let it sit overnight. I got up this morning and checked it...all good no leaks. Got off work checked it...no leaks.

Went to Calavera, hit a few jumps, rock gardens sweet singletrack....no leaks or burps.

It works as intended.
I could have done this with the 2.5 Nevegal DH tire I had on there, but by changing that to the 2.35 UST Nevegal I lost almost a pound of rotating mass, plus the Tire only cost me 38 clams.

I could have used fiber packing tape for the rim strip as well. It would have made this project about $6 cheaper, but I would have had to gone to a different store for that...eh.

If you want to do this with your rims, just make sure you get the right width tape..basically..fat rims call for 25mm tape...skinny little rims take the narrow stuff. Do yourself a favor and wrap the rim twice with the tape. One roll will do 4 wheels single wrapped and one roll only costs about 7-13 bucks bepending on where you buy it. Get a Mavic stem...5-10 bucks depending on where you buy it.
Stans Liquid Sealer...14-22 bucks depending on where you buy it. And your choice of tire. There are some tires (brands) that Stans Suggests you don't use with his liquid and they are listed on his website.

It was cheap and it works very well.
I didn't buy the rubber rimstrip thing with the valve built in because I have read about too may insances where you have to use the yellow tape with it after it has a very difficult time keeping a seal. The Yellow tape is what gives you the seal at your spoke holes and valve stem hole. The mavic stem has a rubber gromit built into the base of it to help with the seal. Plus the "kit" cost 58-70 bucks...eh don't need it.

It took me maybe 20 minutes total from start to finish the process and only cost me a few dollars. If you want to try it and don't want to spend a bunch of dough, this is the best least expensive way to do it and it works very well.
If you have made it this far....good, now go and give it a shot, its cheap and works very well. If you need assistance PM me or call me, we can do this at my place or I can come over to your place and get ya all set-up.
Happy Wrenchin'!!


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:51 pm 
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nice instructional...i thought you would never convert to toobless.

Maybe we can have a toobless clinic at your crib!


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Thanks Phonger...
Yeah...I had vowed and refused to go tubeless but this damn thread was eating at me and eating at me and eating at me. I did it in a manner that if I don't like it I won't be out very much moolah.
So far after on ride I am liking it I guess, we'll see after several rides if I feel the same way.
Alright...lets have a toobless clinic at my place, name the date, we can all set-up our wheels tubeless on the cheap, drink a few good craft brews, a little bbq...(ribs on the smoker), some sweet mt bike vids on the entertainment system in the garage...
I'm ready...but you have to promise to make it here....
:shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Congrats Pete, you'll be happy.

Now carry some Super Glue & paper towel for trail cut's that maybe too big & help seal it up. Tear a small piece of paper towel apart & put over hole & glue.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Red Hot Sloth wrote:
Thanks Phonger...
Yeah...I had vowed and refused to go tubeless but this damn thread was eating at me and eating at me and eating at me. I did it in a manner that if I don't like it I won't be out very much moolah.
So far after on ride I am liking it I guess, we'll see after several rides if I feel the same way.
Alright...lets have a toobless clinic at my place, name the date, we can all set-up our wheels tubeless on the cheap, drink a few good craft brews, a little bbq...(ribs on the smoker), some sweet mt bike vids on the entertainment system in the garage...
I'm ready...but you have to promise to make it here....
:shock:


Dude, you're Mr. Awesome right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Thats so awesome!
I really like those awesome electric jolts around the awesome lisence plate!
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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:43 am 
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Just finished my conversion yesterday. Went tubeless because I have had 3 flats in the last month or so. Relatively easy. All I can say is soap and water will be your best friend. :thumbsup:

Set up:
Mavic En321's with Velox rim tape
Maxxis Minion DHF 2.35 up front
Maxxis Highroller 2.35 in the back
Stan's Rhyno Lite Kit $65.00

Didn't need the Stan's tape since they recommended the Velox for wider rims. Drilled valve stem hole to 3/8 and deburred. Soap and water on the rim strips to help stretch evenly. 1 1/2 scoops sealant in each tire. Used plenty of soap and water to seat the beads along with compressed air. Not sure if the other kits run Presta Valves but the Rhyno Lite Kit uses them. Had to pick up an adapter to air them up. The Highroller was a pain to seal. :x Just kept shaking and twisting and placing on a bucket until I got it. The Minion DHF was a breeze, pretty much sealed up right away. Don't know why they were so different. Both are regular non UST tires. All was great till I got home and whoops. The back tire was backwards. :oops: Today just took the tire off and remounted, being careful not to spill the juice. More soap and water and presto - No leaks. All in all a good experience. I think the only thing the kit should include would be the injector or small 2 oz bottle so refills wouldn't require breaking the tire bead again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:15 pm 
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We are gonna do Boo's bike real soon..maybe we can do it when we have a TCOTCC-BBQ (Toobless Conversion On The Cheap Clinic-BBQ). Anyone interested?
If we do this I will list items to pick up on the cheap that work like a charm.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Red Hot Sloth wrote:
Alright...all this tubeless talk keeps spurring my need for tubeless.
Yesterday I converted my rear wheel to tubeless.
Fairly painless. I went the inexpensive (cheap) route and it seems to be working. I got off work early today so I hit up Calavera for a 14 mile jaunt...
Most of you know my wheels are quite heavy as I run DH Tires and DH Tubes and about half a pound of slime, couple that with the heavy Azonic wheel and it adds up to just under 8lbs for my rear wheel...yup...7.8lbs
So, I decided to see how it felt to roll Tubeless back there.
At first I didn't notice too much of a difference in rolling resistance, but about a mile into the ride I could feel it in my legs...not so much drag..cool. At the end of the ride I could totally tell in my legs...they weren't wet noodles!!! Yah!!!!
In all I lost about 1lb and 3 quarters to 2lbs from the rear.
I like to run low pressure as it is and I set this up the same way. But because I'm used to running 2-ply DH tires I could feel the sidewalls flexing a little more than usual, and then I felt bottom out on my rim...whoopsie!! Alright, add a few psi...good to go.

Here is what I did.

Bought UST Tire...Kenda 2.35 Nevegal DTC...wanted Stick-E but no luck in finding one.
Bought Stans Yellow Rim Tape.
Already had Stans Liquid.
Bought Mavic Stem.

The Azonic rims have a wierd inside profile so instead of one layer of Tape I wrapped it twice (the tape is light...5 grams per wrap so no penalty there) making sure to overlap the stem hole by 2 inches at beginning and end of wrap. This tape is super sticky, so it is imperative to get it in there and pressed down right the first time...check.

Took a small phillips head screwdriver and punched a very small hole at valve stem hole.

Inserted valve stem into hole and tightened the holy hell out of it.

Installed the tire...smacked the tire all the way around to get the tire bead as close as possible to the rim. Removed the valve core from stem and filled tire with air from my compressor to get the bead to seat...this took a couple attempts but didn't take long to do. I heard the bead "popping into place and kept the air on it to make sure all bead was seated well. I about 2 to 2 1/2 scoops of Stans liquid in through the opened valve and replaced the core, filled the tire with air...about 50 psi, and followed the Stans directions for soaping wheel and shaking and rotating wheel to get the liquid to work its magic. Layed on the bucket as directed, came back a bit later check to see if the underside was sealed..yep, now shake and rotate and set on the bucket on the other side for awhile.

I checked on it later that evening and it hadn't lost any air. So I pressured down to my normal riding pressure and let it sit overnight. I got up this morning and checked it...all good no leaks. Got off work checked it...no leaks.

Went to Calavera, hit a few jumps, rock gardens sweet singletrack....no leaks or burps.

It works as intended.
I could have done this with the 2.5 Nevegal DH tire I had on there, but by changing that to the 2.35 UST Nevegal I lost almost a pound of rotating mass, plus the Tire only cost me 38 clams.

I could have used fiber packing tape for the rim strip as well. It would have made this project about $6 cheaper, but I would have had to gone to a different store for that...eh.

If you want to do this with your rims, just make sure you get the right width tape..basically..fat rims call for 25mm tape...skinny little rims take the narrow stuff. Do yourself a favor and wrap the rim twice with the tape. One roll will do 4 wheels single wrapped and one roll only costs about 7-13 bucks bepending on where you buy it. Get a Mavic stem...5-10 bucks depending on where you buy it.
Stans Liquid Sealer...14-22 bucks depending on where you buy it. And your choice of tire. There are some tires (brands) that Stans Suggests you don't use with his liquid and they are listed on his website.

It was cheap and it works very well.
I didn't buy the rubber rimstrip thing with the valve built in because I have read about too may insances where you have to use the yellow tape with it after it has a very difficult time keeping a seal. The Yellow tape is what gives you the seal at your spoke holes and valve stem hole. The mavic stem has a rubber gromit built into the base of it to help with the seal. Plus the "kit" cost 58-70 bucks...eh don't need it.

It took me maybe 20 minutes total from start to finish the process and only cost me a few dollars. If you want to try it and don't want to spend a bunch of dough, this is the best least expensive way to do it and it works very well.
If you have made it this far....good, now go and give it a shot, its cheap and works very well. If you need assistance PM me or call me, we can do this at my place or I can come over to your place and get ya all set-up.
Happy Wrenchin'!!



I didn't know it would work without a rubber rim strip (just the rim tape). I always thought the tire's bead actually touched the rubber rim strip all the way around (i.e. I thought the stans sealant needed rubber on rubber contact instead of rubber on metal)


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Nope...still holing strong to... SaaWeet!


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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:31 pm 
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I did the Stan's Notubes conversion about two or three years ago on my Superlight. I checked the Stan's website and both the rims and tires I had were "supported." I also posted on MTBR and got feedback form one or two others that had the same rims and tires as me running Stan's.

For the first few weeks it was great. I could feel the difference on every climb and every decent. One day I was at Hodges riding with the crew and "POP!" I was covered in Stan's cum. My rear tire had blown a seal. (insert penguin joke here). I had a spare tube but it was such a mess that it was a pain getting the tube seated and inflated with all the sticky crap. All the dust and dirt from the trail was sticking to the Stan's

I did the initial conversion in about 30 minutes with soap and a floor pump. I read all the time that people have trouble with using the floor pump but it was no problem for me. Just need enough soap suds and your good.

After that I went back to tubes. I still miss the roll of Notubes but someday I'll win the lottery and go UST. I think if you have the right tires and wheels and your not a Clyde like me you should go for it. Just keep the tires in good shape and watch your psi. I was running about 25-30 psi again I'm a Clyde you might be able to run lower. When you get the money go UST if Notubes doesn't work out.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubed to Tube-less
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:37 am 
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I just got to say I love tubeless. :cheers:

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