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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Despite the "ownership" issues, would signs stating that something is closed per "Xxxxx Mtn Bikers" be at all effective? How about some signs to remind riders of good trail usage rules?? Usage signs posted in acceptable usage zones of course.

Make sure the local shops are properly educating buyers on good trail principles.

I know a lot of this falls under SDMBA charter, but as they have no exposure up here, can we get together and do it ourselves????


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:04 am 
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325racer wrote:
Despite the "ownership" issues, would signs stating that something is closed per "Xxxxx Mtn Bikers" be at all effective?


I don't think so, but possibly. Posting such signs without consulting the land managers might be counter-productive.

325racer wrote:
Make sure the local shops are properly educating buyers on good trail principles.


I agree that local shops could and probably should do more in this regard, although I am not familiar with all the local shops. There are some I haven't visited.

325racer wrote:
I know a lot of this falls under SDMBA charter, but as they have no exposure up here, can we get together and do it ourselves????


Yes, that is a possibility. On the other hand, if a motivated group of Calavera riders joined SDMBA, and one took on the commitment of being the official Calavera liaison, they wouldn't have to reinvent the organizational wheel, and could draw upon the resources of SDMBA and IMBA.


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:11 am 
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One thing local riders could do to cut down on the redundancy is to stop using the less desirable trails. Maybe arrange some brush so it doesn't look like "the man" closed it but so it looks less desirable to ride. We know the good ones, let the others re-grow.

Another bigger issue is to stop cutting and building. "They" have not closed many trails but have taken out features. Effectively saying, we will let you use the trails, don't build jumps etc. WE need to encourage those who want to build to do it somewhere else.

I think creating a group "Calvera MTB" or something like that is a great idea. Some have a block when SDMBA is mentioned. Like Dan said, this group could coordinate with SDMBA and work autonomously. SDMBA can help with tools and arrange meetings with DFW for example.

I wonder what DFW would say if we had a meeting and told them/him we would like to help by doing A, B, C if you will let us.

Many who post here have the clout in the area to make a difference. The weekend rides are effectively meetings.

I'm happy to help!

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:55 am 
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J.A.M. wrote:
One thing local riders could do to cut down on the redundancy is to stop using the less desirable trails. Maybe arrange some brush so it doesn't look like "the man" closed it but so it looks less desirable to ride. We know the good ones, let the others re-grow.


Good comment, and some folks are doing that. But they don't call it the Wild West for nothin'...


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:03 am 
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325racer wrote:

Make sure the local shops are properly educating buyers on good trail principles.



I'll tell you who does this the best and that the 'Over the Edge' shops in Hurricane and Fruita. The guys at the Hurricane shop are especially vocal in this arena. They had quality metal signs made up (and posted) at trailheads reminded people not to ride muddy trails and the consequences for the trails. When they have rain in the area, they remind people what trails are the best to ride in the rain and when the other trails are expected to dry out. On top of that, they have a ladies ride every week as well as a group ride on saturdays.

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:30 am 
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J.A.M. wrote:
I wonder what DFW would say if we had a meeting and told them/him we would like to help by doing A, B, C if you will let us.
!


This thread is awesome to read. I have to point out however that I did the above in 2011 in response to the fences going up and it was a huge waste of time that went nowhere. DFG's warden, Warren Wong met with us for lunch at the Country Cafe, we then walked the DFG area another day, made a very preliminary open trail plan for the parcel, and despite lots of follow up attempts by me and some SDMBA folks, nothing. It was like he disappeared. Since everything has been relatively cool since then (besides the jumps being dug up of course- at least there are no new fences, or 2011 fences being repaired), I personally have not invested more time into it.

I think the best thing to do is lead by example, like Skywalker did. My feeling based on my experiences is that there is not much that can be done on a macro level out there, but I hope that I am wrong and was a victim of bad timing.

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:19 pm 
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OldDogDan wrote:
J.A.M. wrote:
One thing local riders could do to cut down on the redundancy is to stop using the less desirable trails. Maybe arrange some brush so it doesn't look like "the man" closed it but so it looks less desirable to ride. We know the good ones, let the others re-grow.


Good comment, and some folks are doing that. But they don't call it the Wild West for nothin'...



This was the thought behind the "Closed by XXXX Mtn Bikers" signage. I think in general the people that are creating these cuts will remove the blockage when they think it's being done by the "The Man", while they would hopefully be more willing to acknowledge the closure if they know it's fellow riders.

Problem all comes back to land designation. What's allowed and what's not. We know what's not, but the question if we went to the land manager if he would accept that we want to help reduce additional damage by allowing controlled illegal use.


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:57 pm 
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At TW, the Closed by XXXX Mtn Bikers back fired and there was a lot of infighting between the mountain bike user groups. Talk to Italo about some of the happenings if he is still around. Each group had a different agenda and if it was "their" line that that was closed, it was reopened and retaliation against the remaining lines happened. Same thing has happened at different times at ATT. The old adage "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" exists for a reason.

Since there is no recognized ruling party, if one attempts to exert their influence, it might be received very negatively by other riders, regardless of the intent. The first thing to do is to organize and get your house in order. It appears there are many factions, all riding, building, and modifying without a lot of communication between. It needs to be a unified front for any semblance of success. Then, maybe you might be able to manage the lines out there. It will be a very tough job.

The Bonita Bikers have done a great job at organizing and becoming the majority bike stakeholders in the south. They work with SDMBA but are fully autonomous and are the reason there is movement down there. The event on Saturday is completely the Bonita Bikers doing. They have a Facebook page if you want to ask the questions on what and how they do it.

Don't wait for for something to happen. Be the catalyst and create the change you are seeking (<<bull crap corporate speak but you get the idea). A large portion of the contributors here have a vested interest in Calaveras. Even if you try and fail, at least you tried. If no attempt is made, the property will be available for the short term but the future is very bleak.

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:59 pm 
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325racer wrote:
This was the thought behind the "Closed by XXXX Mtn Bikers" signage. I think in general the people that are creating these cuts will remove the blockage when they think it's being done by the "The Man", while they would hopefully be more willing to acknowledge the closure if they know it's fellow riders.


Matt- nice thread and I like the discussion. IMHO I don't feel everyone should assume that all trail closures are "opened" back up by MTBers only. Yes, I'm sure it's happened but please don't paint all activity on us alone. I have seen hikers do this myself and equestrians merely just create another cut or trail by going around it. (Heaven forbid they get off the horse and do work on the trail). Not too fond of any more signs than there are today either.

I would have to guess that the long term plan for that area has already been in the works years ago between all the parties and it doesn't include you or I

A funny thought came into my head reading about how many years some of the old farts (Ya, I'm fucking with you) have been riding here. Just imagine how large that pile of the post ride empties would be. :cheers: :drunk: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Kimba - Would you be willing to email Wong and ask for another meeting? It would be worth it just to get clearance to maintain the legal 'trails' under his watch. I'll go and then help coordinate work when its time.

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:33 pm 
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k2rider wrote:
325racer wrote:

Make sure the local shops are properly educating buyers on good trail principles.



I'll tell you who does this the best and that the 'Over the Edge' shops in Hurricane and Fruita. The guys at the Hurricane shop are especially vocal in this arena. They had quality metal signs made up (and posted) at trailheads reminded people not to ride muddy trails and the consequences for the trails. When they have rain in the area, they remind people what trails are the best to ride in the rain and when the other trails are expected to dry out. On top of that, they have a ladies ride every week as well as a group ride on saturdays.


My guess is that if permission is asked in advance, CNLM would agree to trail etiquette signs on their area. However, since DFW does not recognize any singletrack as legal, I think it's unlikely on their parcel, for now.

I just stopped by the new local shop I hadn't visited. Didn't see any advocacy materials displayed, but had a good off-the-record discussion. They offer a SDMBA/IMBA discount, understand the complicated issues of where they lead rides, and said they verbally enlighten new riders as to discretion required...I encourage any DT-reading customers to talk to them as well.

325racer wrote:
Problem all comes back to land designation. What's allowed and what's not. We know what's not, but the question if we went to the land manager if he would accept that we want to help reduce additional damage by allowing controlled illegal use.


He can't explicitly agree to illegal use and expect to keep his job. That's his political reality. Right now as Kimba alluded, it's sorta "don't ask, don't tell".


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:54 am 
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I am willing to meet and listen to anyone's opinions/strategies and willing to offer suggestions/insight on Calaveras.

I personally would not meet with Land Manager Warren Wong at this point in time. I'm willing to explain this statement in person but not on an internet forum.

I can be reached by PM or jay(AT)sdmba(dot)com.

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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:00 pm 
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Since I started this thread, I'll follow up.

I have to put it out there, that while I do want to help out and in some of my non biking circles they already know this about me. I'm very good at coming up with ideas and instigating changes, etc, but for a long term project manager, I'm not the guy for the job. Getting something off the ground, then handing off to someone to carry on, organizing a 1 day event here or there.

Part of my issue is that I'm involved in so many things and just spread to thin and (hey butterfly) maybe I'm just a tiny bit ADD and have to move on to the next thing.

That said, I'm totally onboard to try and get things organized, even if that means starting an organized Calaveras Riders Society (or something) to better show our interests, I can help with that. But long term I think the long term leadership role should be someone with more time than I can dedicate, maybe someone retired!!!

All that said, I'm certainly onboard to help get things moving.


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 Post subject: Re: Calaveras Trails
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:50 pm 
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The bridge to the back 40 was washed down stream and straddling 2 trees, I yanked it out to higher ground at lunch yesterday, some damage to both ends and one brace gone. It'll need repair if it's to be used again. Might be worth building a roman wall across, though the exit and entry seem rideable.

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