SDMBA

his highness · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:28 pm

we could start this argument all over again....but what good is it going to do us?
simply put, if you dont do one single thing to help, prevent or fix the issue, then you have no room to talk or complain...thats the way I see it.
but if you do something, then you have the right to talk/complain about it....kinda like going to the casino; if you bring $$$ then you get to sit at the table and play. if you show up broke, all you can do is stand in the back and watch.

i didnt see much of of anything being done at Iron Mt......(key word---> "I didnt") and i didnt know who else to talk to since my emails and phonecalls to the city went unanswered, so I went ahead and called Turko. sure i got some heat for it, and sure maybe nobody that watched it really cares, but I care....and I did something to help the situation...and i honestly feel that the little pressure that Turko put on the situation made the city aware that they were being closely watched...even if it was by only 2 morons...watched is WATCHED.

theres plenty of things we individuals can do to help....but ultimately at the end of the day, SDMBA is the agency that claims to represent us as a community....so they should be at the forefront of the fight. why dont they post up a thread asking for volunteers to head up the Calaveras issue?
Remember the old saying "be careful what you wish for, you just may get it"...?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but with a name like SDMBA (SAN DIEGO mountain biking association) it woudl appear that SDMBA wanted to cover the entire San Diego spectrum right???
So with that comes the good, bad and the ugly. And shit like this (Iron Mt., Calaveras) is the ugly...

In my humble opinion, this is why the situation is going nowhere;

1- SDMBA needs to start picking better battles...the ones that are crucial. The fireroads at MTRP and Sycamore arent going anywhere....but the ones at Iron and Calaveras are.
2- if SDMBA needs help, they should vocalize that. If they truly dont have the manpower and wait until assholes like myself (and a few others) start giving out 3rd degrees, then they are making themselves look bad by not verbalizing it first.
3- DT seems like the primary voice/forum for san diego riders.....there needs to be a SDMBA/DT liaison....if they want our support, they cant just come on here and post a trail day and ask for our manpower/labor. They need to post up weekly reports telling us what is going on with our trails and what they are doing to make the situation better AND what they need from us. Communication is key.

jSatch · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:31 pm

yes agreed hh. there is a fire.

just from my experience with the whole tunnels conundrum, robo's maps provided, and remain to provide, invaluable information. it may be easier to come into negotiations knowing what you feel is indispensable, understand why these particular trails/areas are being closed (environmental issues?), and how you may argue against that issue and/or compromise perhaps another area of lesser importance to maintain an area considered vital singletrack, yet still maintain needed conservation.

if we send letters to the city, an informed and uniform response may carry some weight. however, if the time for public appeal was 2009, that may be a difficult uphill battle to open this again, to say the least. however, again using tunnels as an example, it could be argued that the city will not be able to adequately enforce restriction unless it reevaluates the needs of the community and balance that with the conservation it wants to enforce. (legal use deters illegal abuse)

another aspect of leverage is that calavera could be stated as a san diego tourist destination. lots of singletrack within small confines could add to business. of course that would mean local bike shops get on board and the city realizes it could expand tourism by the virtue that we have year round ridable singletrack, not just surfing.

finally, with maps and arguments in hand it would be possible to take the direction you did at iron mtn, and that kemper (along with ebasil and myself) did at tunnels, get the media involved.

fortunately, calavera may not have the elitist and entitled equestrian syndrome that has thus far thwarted herculean efforts by a very few persistent souls at tunnels.

badkittyjing · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Wow, very well put. And I completely understand where you're coming from.

his highness wrote:

theres plenty of things we individuals can do to help....but ultimately at the end of the day, SDMBA is the agency that claims to represent us as a community....so they should be at the forefront of the fight. why dont they post up a thread asking for volunteers to head up the Calaveras issue?
Remember the old saying "be careful what you wish for, you just may get it"...?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but with a name like SDMBA (SAN DIEGO mountain biking association) it woudl appear that SDMBA wanted to cover the entire San Diego spectrum right???
So with that comes the good, bad and the ugly. And shit like this (Iron Mt., Calaveras) is the ugly...

I fully agree with you on this. My biggest gripe when I first wanted to be involved with the bike park committee of SDMBA was the complete and utter lack of real communication. It seemed like everything was going on "behind-the-scenes." I lit the fire on it, because I wanted more information. What ended up happening? You soon realize that people DO want to get involved... they just didn't know how and that SDMBA wants your help, even if you are a damn dirty DHer.

So now I'm doing what I can to keep the fire going and so far, response has been favorable (it's not just me, but there are others to give credit to: masta shake, Los, mtbgurlsd, JHill, and others, sorry if I forgot to name you). On a sidenote to this, more info from the bikepark group will be coming out soon! We just need to get all our ducks in a row.

his highness wrote:

2- if SDMBA needs help, they should vocalize that. If they truly dont have the manpower and wait until assholes like myself (and a few others) start giving out 3rd degrees, then they are making themselves look bad by not verbalizing it first.

3- DT seems like the primary voice/forum for san diego riders.....there needs to be a SDMBA/DT liaison....if they want our support, they cant just come on here and post a trail day and ask for our manpower/labor. They need to post up weekly reports telling us what is going on with our trails and what they are doing to make the situation better AND what they need from us. Communication is key.

Yep, agree with you on this as well. They need a way to reach the masses, for those that typically don't read the Trail News e-newsletter or don't go to the SDMBA website or go to the meetings. A forum for SDMBA is being worked on so that it is a place where they can hopefully reach the masses. It's not something to take away from DT because there is a certain camaraderie and community within DT that can't be matched or replaced. It will be more for new riders, visitors to SD, and for those interested in advocacy.

Los · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:23 pm

his highness wrote:

3- DT seems like the primary voice/forum for san diego riders.....there needs to be a SDMBA/DT liaison.....

I think more people tolerate you then they do me. Consider yourself nominated

OldDogDan · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:47 pm

jSatch wrote:

i've only been to calavera once and was impressed with the extent of singletrack.

but for those more in the know of the area, is there a map, or link to a map, of the 'Lake Calavera Trails Master Plan', including fencing?

this may aid in understanding present and future plans, including what will be lost, or gained in the process.

thank you.

Here are links to two City brochures that contain maps. The first is the original from 2009 and contains info about land ownership of the whole area we're talking about when we say "Calavera".
http://www.carlsbadca.gov/services/environmental/hmp/docs/Documents/public-outreach/LC-Brochure-2009-12-31.pdf

The second is the current City brochure for their area, managed by CNLM (who also manages La Costa). It shows the current approved trails and trailheads.
http://www.carlsbadca.gov/services/departments/parksandrec/trails/events/Documents/LC-11x17-brochure-2010-09-15-version-3.pdf

Sasqwatch · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:27 am

[quote="OldDogDan"http://www.carlsbadca.gov/services/departments/parksandrec/trails/events/Documents/LC-11x17-brochure-2010-09-15-version-3.pdf[/url][/quote]

Wow! According to the trail map legend on this link, there is going to be an 'epic' 5.1 miles of beautiful sanitized doulbletrack!

Has anyone pointed out that the "preserve" is surrounded by houses and roads? Better get out there now and ride it while you can. It looks like Carlsbad is gonna close it to everyone but the birds, the bees and the growers of weeds.

What a retarded situation. Let me know what if anything I can do to help keep access to the great network of trails out there.

Just an idea, maybe holding events at some of these trails that are threatened. Put on poker rides or item/location find rides where people take pictures of things along the trail kinda stuff. It could do two things at once; bring money to the park the trail is in and bring awareness to the city councils of just how many people enjoy the area on bikes. The poker ride in Cuyamaca is always a success, take that to Calavera, Hodges, LPQ and anywhere else ridable.

Red Hot Sloth · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:09 am

This whole Calavera thing disturbs me to no end. Especially considering the fact that we are being forced out of an area that will have a road going through it.
So, here's some inane facts.

1. Some enviro's, who dont want to damage the ecosystem figure they are going to do what they can to keep users out of an area, umm, an area that I have used freely since 1991, thats 20 years. I have friends that have freely used this same area for over 30 years, and other friends that have used this area freely even longer.
2. This area used to have fireroads and maintenance roads, which are now singletrack trails will be off limits because staying on the singletrack trails damages the environment, doesnt let the critters sleep at night etc.
3. This area is slated for development, roads, infrastructure, but the singletrack, that used to be fireroads needs to be rehabbed, but in the near future will be roads, sewers, sidewalks, traffic lights, street lights, gutters.
4. One of these enviro's pushing for this is the guy I kicked the fuck outta here, much to the dismay of everyone who hugs the nuts of the only advocacy group around. Why did the nuthuggers get bent? Because this guy was and likely still is a volunteer for said advocacy group.
5. The volunteer/enviro I speak of that people so vehemently defended is/was the guy pushing for the closure, the fencing, the limitation, the signage.
6. Behind the scenes, please recall a statement from me, in the past, where I explained that some people do volunteer work, trail-work, meet with city members without mentioning it or bragging about it? Well, during some of my conversations, impromptu meetings, and all previously unmentioned interactions. I had the word from people (cee aira clubbers, city members, trails plan members), that they have been working with a guy that has gps'd overlay-ed onto maps, his recommendations for trails, what should be closed off, what could be left open. This guy, is responsible for the smoothing out of a trail, the improper drainage implementation, improper berm placement etc, on a trail that was just about perfect before he ever touched it. This guy is/was a volunteer for SDMBA. So, the city likes the fact that they have a "mt biker" who's willing to speak for the entire mt bike community and "give" us 1.5 miles of previously on the slate to block off trails.

Really people, stop being such weak-minded sheep, a land manager/city/parks takes away 95% of your trails and ya'll will fall back on, "well at least we got to keep something, thats better than nothing". We have/had over 20 miles of trails out here. Are you (sdmba) seriously going to say you actually worked to get an entire mile and a half?! The strange thing is, which Im having a hard time wrapping my head around is, you say "we dont have a liaison there", but then you say, "we worked to get you 1.5 miles of trail to stay open".
Which is it? Get your stance correct already, but thats besides the point.
Honestly, Im not blaming SDMBA for this, I blame the city. We know they do what they want with what they have regardless to input, its a fruitless fight with them. Made even more difficult when theres an enviro with an ulterior agenda who uses some half-assed credentials to speak for mt bikers.

But, heres something for you folks to chew on.
Any trail system you have freely used for decades without limitation, on established trails, if you hear your advocacy group brag about the fact they saved you a total of 1.5 miles of trail when they dont acknowledge a liaison there, and they fall back on the old usual of, Well, we're volunteering so settle for what ya get, be wary of that advocacy group.
Theres plenty of us that have done advocacy work without being in an organisation, without saying "Ive/we've done this for you, and all you do is complain, what have you done?" I mean, look how much an enviro in the group can accomplish.
But, like I said, Im not blaming SDMBA so if any of you out there that are riding their nut-sack take it that way, forget about it.

I guess Im just venting.

The thing to take from this, what ya'll can walk away knowing is, the area that used to be fire roads is now singletrack, will be closed off from users, to later be plowed, paved, turned into roads, sewers, storm drains, traffic signals, street lights, traffic, cars, pollution, litter etc...
Yep, kicked out of an area to save the environment, but its going to be built on...sound familiar?

kevmortensen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:53 am

. . . . EDITED
Nevermind. I'm over it.

badkittyjing · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:31 am

It does suck what's going on out there. And it does suck that the typically response is "we're just volunteers. what are you doing about it?" Wish I could do more to fight the good fight up there, but my focus within SDMBA is strictly to garner to support and get a bike skills park built in SD.

bankerboy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:28 am

If you believe that SDMBA is THE organization that solely represents us, be prepared to lose more riding spaces. It is the non affiliated people interested in an area who need to stand up and say “hey, we need this!” SDMBA is a noble organization who wants to do right but they are not omnipotent. It is an impossible task. Rich J, 406, and all the folks who “work” there have families, jobs, and other life events that will limit their time. To believe that they will save us all by themselves is not realistic.

I have attended the PQ meetings on occasion and they are very eye opening. The highest attendance was a few years ago with the public hearing on the tunnels. Unfortunately, the interest has worn down. The monthly meetings have 3-5 public attendees and usually only one is a mountain biker. I have a family and work so I cannot go regularly. I try but it, too, is not realistic.

So, what do you do? Get off your ass and go to the boring, pointless (other’s words) meetings. It is your face and words that make a difference. Letters are great, emails are helpful, and phone calls assist in the task but it is YOUR FACE TIME that can make the biggest impact. That is realistic.

I will miss a lot of names/monikers so if it is yours, forgive me..
Just an example of personal trail stewardship and face time:

Crestridge – Kevin has put in more that a few hours there

Marion Bear/San Clemente Canyon (52 freeway) – Evdog love to clear brush there

Black Mountain – Needs to be renamed Rodster Mountain

Penasquitos – Robo/Rodster/Basil have all worked hard to keep, reclaim and prevent closures

Ted Williams – HisHighness has put in more than a fair share of work

SD Bike Park – Doesn’t exist yet but Badkittyjing, OCD, Jhill and a lot of others are working to keep it moving along

Don’t call it Mission Trails – all sorts of people out there, Canaan is just one

Some of the folks above belong to SDMBA, but not all. They are the ones who acted rather than waited. It is the only way success will be achieved.

The name calling has to stop. More and more, people are resistant to post here because of the lost feeling of community. We are supposed to work together not against each other. We can be our own worst enemies.

jSatch · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:47 am

thanks rhs, that places this more in focus for those of us that are not intimately involved in the calavera issue.

from an outsiders perspective what does seem clear is that sdmba should draft a letter to the city making it known that the unnamed person (hint all you want, i am am idiot. i don't know who this is), although a member of sdmba, does not represent the views or interests of sdmba in this issue. that would be the very least they should do if not for anyone else but to protect their own organization from misrepresentation. they should further state that their views and interests, indeed the mission of sdmba, runs counter to the present proposal of shutting down singletrack that has been established now for decades.

that would disallow the unnamed person from speaking/acting on behalf of what is recognized as the advocate organization of mtn biking community in san diego. in other words, he's doing this as an individual, not as a representative of sdmba. it would be in sdmba's best interests to make this formal statement to the city and prevent further blowback, or to allow any card carrying sdmba member claim they represent the organization.

no volunteer time needed. just a simple letter.

Los · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:02 pm

I dont know anything about the situation in that area , or ErikMM's deal and involvement with it. So I cant really comment on that, what I can say is that I dont pick sides unless I know have met them before / ridden with them and know they are a good person. I know I said that towards the end of the conversation in the other thread. When the last hoopla happened with him on here, I spoke up in defense of a random dude I saw getting harassed and bullied on the internet who I never saw deserved the flak he got. After RHS explained his side of the story and spelled it out what his deal was I backed off. I think there was one other person that came to his defense along the same lines that I did, saw a dude taking punches from all sides and tried to chill the situation out. As far as I recall, 2 of us spoke up in his defense ( a few had random comments ) dont lump all "nuthuggers" in on that cause thats not the case.

Do you know for a fact that SDMBA endorses what he is doing out there? Do you know that alot of "nuthuggers" have a clue whats going on other than what little information has been displayed here? I dont know otherwise and will spend a little time looking into it as far as SDMBA is concerned and will get back here with what I find out.

You make some valid points for your particular situation. What you need to do is look at the big picture here. Think about what comes about from you bitching here on DT. You get your Bro's to say "fuck yeah, fuck SDMBA and whatever the hell their doing". You get the Bro's that are lurkers to say to themselves "fuck yeah, fuck SDMBA and whatever the hell their doing." I know your are expressing your personal opinion, but you need to realize that in a round about way you are a leader here. In the same way your bitching about SDMBA's "sheep". You yourself have people that follow your lead (Im not an asshole so I wont call anyone a sheep) .
The absolute numero uno, biggest fucking problem in SD is the riding community is divided and wont work together. RHS although you probably dont realize it, Comments and Rants like yours driver a deeper wedge between the community. As it is, the attitude of ALL people in SD is "me, me, me". Its all about ME. Thats where SD fails and everywhere else in the nation can pull together and get shit done. bottom line righ there, thats where this riding community fails. No one wants to do shit to help a situation, everyone wants to cry behind keyboards and point fingers.

Your looking at SDMBA like its some big association, like its "the man" thats trying to fuck you. Guess what? Its less than 10 people trying to make a difference in SD, succeeding in some areas and failing miserably in others. How do we change that? How do we step up our game as a riding community? By working together. Sitting and bitching on an internet soap box gets you nowhere. While you are correct, there are shortcomings in the current organization lets stop backpedaling and rehashing every little thing we can remember and start taking steps in the right direction. Lets work on being SD MTB riders united, instead of 5 different sub groups of different styles with 20 different cliques in each.

I applaud anyone that does advocacy work , bragging about it (where has someone bragged about it?) or behind the scenes, cause either way its for the benefit of everyone. If you want to be effective we ALL need to work together whether we agree with shit or not.

Im busy at work, this post took 2 hours to do so sorry if its fragmented. Ill post intelligently this evening.

kevmortensen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:17 pm

When an admin on a forum openly admits to banning a user based solely on the persons actions outside of the forum - actions that are based on this persons best intentions and beliefs as a person - a contributor to overall society - (not just mountain biking) while others, who have made threats of violence against other forum users, and who talk openly about violent acts towards other trail users are given the nod - than it is no longer an open forum, nor one that I need to participate in.
What happens when my beliefs and actions are in disagreement with this admin? Will I be banned or sanctioned?
This blaming SDMBA BS needs to stop as well. It's old. It's a bunch of invalid arguments, and it's childish.

his highness · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:25 pm

kevmortensen wrote:

while others, who have made threats of violence against other forum users, and who talk openly about violent acts towards other trail users are given the nod

who are you referring to?

Neva mind...i gotta go.....i see some XC guys i need to run the fuck over.

Canaan · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:56 pm

I've got a suggestion -- how about this thread gets locked and we agree to disagree about SDMBA? Nobody is changing anybody else's mind and if we keep arguing, all we'll do from this point forward is make enemies with each other.

SDMBA

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