I was at Barres last Sat was chased down from the top by MPs who were overly aggressive- very pissed. I also heard that a MTB got helicoptered out of the military preserve recently which greatly pissed off the NEW Commandant and the suit that followed made it worse. The MPs are OFF military property chasing MTBs but our group did not want to be confronted and have an argument we were sure to lose. The MPs are clearly on a mission from God!

...Jon

I edited my first comment. I didnt want to sound like a localistic A hole. These are just my local trails. Lets try and work together to get all the trail access we can. Ride on.

Hey....you guys should go to the area and bring some TV crews...call up the local news investigators and get them out there to investigate the BS. Really and we'll see who is lying or what. >>How do you get a ticket for being on PARK land at the top of Barrels?? The steel gate is 300 yds away to the military preserve. I'm lost!

I was at Barrels last Sat was chased down from the top by MPs who were overly aggressive- very pissed. I also heard that a MTB got helicoptered out of the military preserve recently which greatly pissed off the NEW Commandant and the suit that followed made it worse. The MPs are OFF military property chasing MTBs but our group did not want to be confronted and have an argument we were sure to lose. The MPs are clearly on a mission from God!

...Jon

Well, considering the top part of barrels is on military property...

Unfortunately, the top of 3Barrels is definitely on base property. Somewhere about halfway down barrels is when you cross the line and leave the base. But it still isn't PARK land. Currently, NO PART of Mission Trails Regional Park lies anywhere north of Hwy. 52. If you're north of 52 but not on Marine Corps land, you're on either City, County, or private land (the area is a whole complex patchwork of land ownership).

Ok, folks, I know people are going to ride out there. But you've gotta understand, if you trespass on military property they have every right to stop you, warn you, cite you, etc. You can get Turko to sit out there with a camera crew if you think you can, but that doesn't change the fact that you're trespassing. If you insist on riding there (and I can certainly understand that, and have done so many times myself), stay off the ridgelines as much as possible, keep a low profile, drop into the canyons, don't go any further north than the top of 3 Barrels.

are those signs on the 3 barrels trail? i thought it was only the northern part that crossed the military border.

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Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. ~Milan Kundera

No, those are at Sycamore just after the power lines where the lakes end. On the Santee side of the crossing before the cutoff towards switchbacks.

Just stay out of there on the weekends.
Call Jacobs. She needs to know about our situation. If money becomes available (it is county and not city) then maybe we get that whole area as park land. If she doesn't know we want it, we can't expect her to push for purchase.

This is something I posted last year in a similar thread which has been F88'd. Chuck(anado) posted a similar map, but I'll defer to him if he wants to repost it.

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"Those skilled at the unorthodox are infinite as heaven and earth, inexhaustible as the great rivers."
— Tzun Tzu

My uneducated guess is no, in general. However, a process is in place to get some of the Sycamore land reverted back to public use, and the County is on one side of the negotiations. Some history (I need to find a new link to the Jacob's memo):

Back in 2004-2006 there was negotiation of a land transfer whereby the Dept. of Navy would convey a 230-acre sliver of land, at the East edge of "Training Area 1" (in the map above) to the county of San Diego. This would restore the remainder of Stowe Trail to public recreational use. The authorization to formally start this *process* was made (at the Federal level) in 2006.

Dianne Jacob sent a memo to the Board of Supervisors in 2006 asking to enter a MOA with the Navy to start this rolling. Apparently the Navy wanted some outrageous amount of money for the land, like $7.4 mil., so the process stalled.

Then last Sept., there was an action item at the MTRP Task Force mtg, as follows (from the minutes):

102. Support of County of San Diego’s efforts to secure authorization from the Marine Corps for public use of the historic Stowe Trail between Goodan ranch and Sycamore Canyon Preserve to the north and Mission Trails and Santee to the South. Bill Maertz reported on the proposal being advocated by Supervisor Jacob for this 3.5 mile connection between MTRP and Good Ranch/Sycamore Canyon Preserve. The trail would be maintained by the County and a fence would be installed. The Marine Corps would be held harmless. A letter of support from the Task Force is being requested.


MOTION – That the MTRP Task Force chair send a letter of support for the proposed license agreement requested by the County of San Diego which would authorize public use of the historic Stowe Trail, a major link between Goodan Ranch and Sycamore Canyon Preserve to the north and Mission Trails Regional Park and Santee Lakes to the South. Moved and seconded (LEONARD/EMERALD). Motion carried

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"Those skilled at the unorthodox are infinite as heaven and earth, inexhaustible as the great rivers."
— Tzun Tzu

for those that aren't familiar with these maps, the green circle is the top section of barrels within military boundaries.

tiny bit of oak and the switches to/from oak also. r1 and r2 are nearly all on military property

l1/teote is not on military property. the amount of land required to maintain the 'figure 8' (l1/teote, mr toads, switches, barrels) is nominal and far from the shooting ranges.

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Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. ~Milan Kundera

I agree. A little "bite" out of their land where you placed the circle would complete that figure 8. In addition, a small slice of Oak canyon to the Southwest would complete an outer loop with Spring. None of that is within the danger zone and any reasonable person would conclude that it impacts very little, if any, land that is useable by the Marines.

I actually pitched a similar idea to Supervisor Jacob in an e-mail I sent last year (which also included my support for the Sycamore/Stowe agreement). I got a nice "Thank you" form e-mail in return. In my (admittedly naive) opinion, this would make a nice package proposal to the Marines -- same terms and conditions for both areas. But I will add that the company working on the MTRP Master Plan told me that the Marines are unlikely to budge one inch on ANY land in the Spring / Oak area.

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"Those skilled at the unorthodox are infinite as heaven and earth, inexhaustible as the great rivers."
— Tzun Tzu

it seems it would be to their advantage to nudge those lines. then they would no longer be liable for anyone getting hurt there.

at this point there are no signs (to my understanding) posted on either oak or the top of barrels.

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Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. ~Milan Kundera

Although it is far from where I normally ride, I have ridden there enough to know how nice those trails are.

I also have always been more concerned than most about the rifle range and the possibility of stray bullets taking me out for good. They are 18 year old kids for the most part learning to shoot over there, on that range right above your head to the left, after all, and here I am on my bike trying to forget about daily stuff and relax while the pops and volleys of the sound of freedom basically defeat that effort. For this reason, and I am not siding with the Marines at all mind you, just typing out loud, enforcement of the prohibition there makes more sense at least to me than other fences put up that do absolutely nothing to help or protect any sentient being, so I can kind of see why the Marines might be unwilling to help. If the County can buy some of that land that would be great, but money is kind of tight all over.

I know somebody got schooled recently for posting about the obvious need for more trails in Mission Trails park proper since the rangers are really against that idea it was said, so I am exposing myself here but what the hell. Ideas are ideas. Between the two options, (1) fighting with the Marines and/or paying them off (double taxation); and (2) asking the city for more trails in an established park, it would seem pushing for more trails in Mission "trails" Park makes the most sense for that area, and has the greatest long term chance of working despite the current resistance of city (read city, not federal military) workers. Nobody would have to buy anything for gazillions of dollars, the city rangers would just have more trails to get off their asses and patrol. If that supposedly pro-Mtb Mayoral candidate Fletcher gets elected, it may be easy to do in his administration. Who knows? I also get that the park ain't that great in general, so people are just not that into it.

Wait a minute, what the hell am I doing?

Be careful out there, don't get a ticket!

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"We'll ride it until they pave it."

-Big Clyde

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Scum on a Bike