The Chris Campbell Spring & Oak Show

jSatch · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:15 pm

Dirtrider wrote:

Maybe they have moved from the Mesa to MTRP

now if we could just gps them as they rotate locations, we'd know which trail is safe to ride on any given day.

J.A.M. · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Contact info for the southern region office of DFG/DFW

AskR5@wildlife.ca.gov
Main Office
3883 Ruffin Road
San Diego, CA 92123
(858) 467-4201
FAX: (858) 467-4299
EMAIL the South Coast Region
Regional Manager: Ed Pert

OldDogDan · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:05 pm

BGFitz wrote:

Does someone's selfish desire for "faster" outweigh the rest of the mointain biking communities' reliance on these trails as a way to reap the unique benefits each rider gets by kicking up a little dust? If yes is the answer, I suggest pedaling something with 23c tires on the road. At least they won't shut down the 101 next time you decide to ride like a pompous, chest thumping, mouth breather

Only your second post in three years. But it's a damn good one.

Earache · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:03 pm

I ride there a lot and I am distressed like most MTB'ers that it might (will?) be closed.
I am not really understanding the justification for the objections to the use of the area for recreation for this reason; what lasting harm has been done as the result of trail use? Even if you take into account the damage done by that Meathead with Tools, nature has a way of healing the land. Organic material decays, rain run-off changes the terrain, birds chirp and coyotes crap on the trail. I don't see much (any?) inorganic trash - just 3 rusty barrels (monuments really, not debris), no sign of recent fire or other significant abuse - and it's not as if Military and Landfill activities nearby haven't already established long term use of these areas. Any notion that these are some type of pristine/sensitive environmental lands, doesn't fly. Should they be managed and treated with respect?.... of course - closed?.... NO
There is fire in my area today that will do more damage in 24 hours that all the MTB'ers - put together - have done to Spring/Oak for decades.

My question is; The Fed land is already off-limits - the Park boundary is at the freeway - who owns the land in-between and what gives the DF&G jurisdiction/enforcement powers over those areas?

random walk · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:24 pm

Earache wrote:

My question is; The Fed land is already off-limits - the Park boundary is at the freeway - who owns the land in-between and what gives the DF&G jurisdiction/enforcement powers over those areas?

Nice post, and welcome BTW :cheers:

If you go by this map, it looks like a little over half is owned by the City of San Diego and the rest is privately-owned, with a smattering of Sycamore Landfill and one "Environmental Trust."

http://www.ktuaprojects.com/mtrp/PW3/MT ... pt_PW3.pdf

I'm not sure how (technically) the assignment of enforcement agency works, either, but there appears to precedent up in Del Mar Mesa. Hopefully someone who understands that process better will chime in.

Earache · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:38 am

Quote:

....If you go by this map, it looks like a little over half is owned by the City of San Diego and the rest is privately-owned, with a smattering of Sycamore Landfill and one "Environmental Trust."

http://www.ktuaprojects.com/mtrp/PW3/MT ... pt_PW3.pdf

I'm not sure how (technically) the assignment of enforcement agency works, either, but there appears to precedent up in Del Mar Mesa. Hopefully someone who understands that process better will chime in.

Thanks for the info... I did read some of the other threads here that have extensively discussed the issues surrounding MTRP, Spring and Oak - I know that this is not a particularly new issue nor is it as simple as my post implies - it's much more complicated than MTB'ers vs. Bambi. I think the mish-mash of property ownership contributes to the lack of consensus on access and liability - the NIMBY Force is strong in this one Luke....

It seems like it should be easy, right? .... 'cause it's just about us Kids and a place to ride our bikes... But, alas, the world is not like that - Damn It!

Huntrologist · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:56 am

mtbTB wrote:

Heard this through a reliable source: "My friend learned today from MTRP’s ranger Mel that all of Oak, Spring and all the feeder trails will be closed to hikers and bikers in 3 weeks. After that time, the rangers will be actively patrolling the canyons writing what they say are $1,700 tickets.
Apparently the catalyst for all of this is twofold:
-First there’s the interloper from Colorado [guess who?] who’s been butchering the brush on our trails so he can ride them faster. He’s also the guy who knocked off the top of the jumps on Blazing Saddles and the top of Toads, and he’s now butchering the trails out in Sycamore.
-Second is Strava. While Strava is a fun way to track your time on a given trail, it strongly encourages you to be fastest and become “King Of The Mountain”. If you have the fastest time on a trail, Strava sends you a congratulatory e-mail telling you you’re King Of The Mountain. If someone beats your time, it then sends you an e-mail encouraging you to go out there and reclaim your title. What this has done is turn our favorite trails into racetracks, which is why Colorado boy is butchering and tearing up our trails: so he can have bragging rights as the fastest.
All this means the trails are getting torn up and guys are riding like idiots, which only stirs up the trail Nazis and encourages them to take radical action.
Trail closure seems imminent. Without so much as a hearing or community involvement from the biking community, MTRP will be closing the area in 3 weeks. Unless we speak up.
If you want to ride keep riding in MTRP, you MUST get involved and speak up."

So you can thank CC, the self-centered jackass, for ruining it for all of us. Next time you see him knock him off the trail and break his bike in half. And no, I don't care that I'm old and slower than you, Chris. I ride because it's fun - especially blind corners in the bushes. Unless you built the trail, you have no right to modify it in any way.

Is this the same Chris Campbell that works at Ashford University?

ride00 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:27 am

I would like to contact DF&G to verify all this is a reality. Does anyone have experience with contacting them? I was planning on just giving them a call and asking- will that be a good approach?

rob240z · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:46 am

Huntrologist wrote:

Is this the same Chris Campbell that works at Ashford University?

Indeed, it is.

Ray Dolor · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:02 am

Earache wrote:

Quote:

....If you go by this map, it looks like a little over half is owned by the City of San Diego and the rest is privately-owned, with a smattering of Sycamore Landfill and one "Environmental Trust."

http://www.ktuaprojects.com/mtrp/PW3/MT ... pt_PW3.pdf

I'm not sure how (technically) the assignment of enforcement agency works, either, but there appears to precedent up in Del Mar Mesa. Hopefully someone who understands that process better will chime in.

Thanks for the info... I did read some of the other threads here that have extensively discussed the issues surrounding MTRP, Spring and Oak - I know that this is not a particularly new issue nor is it as simple as my post implies - it's much more complicated than MTB'ers vs. Bambi. I think the mish-mash of property ownership contributes to the lack of consensus on access and liability - the NIMBY Force is strong in this one Luke....

It seems like it should be easy, right? .... 'cause it's just about us Kids and a place to ride our bikes... But, alas, the world is not like that - Damn It!

It seems to me that mtb riding has been growing locally at an impressively high rate. The number of riders, and the level of their skills has out-paced the trails available. When those in charge of the areas where the trails are did not respond to the growing need for more trails, the riders basically found them on their own.

This happened in LPQ/DMM, abetted by Pardees' eradication of the "intestines" social singletrack, which had been ridden and used by all trail folks for well over a decade.

And in MTRP, where once again, the city "standard" for calling something a "trail" apparently requires that it be at least 10' wide, enough to drive a truck on, the same thing happened. Riders found the trails themselves, since the officials were going to take years and years to respond to the very real need for actual trails, if they ever did.

And now the backlash occurs. Bicyclists are characterized as criminals, the environment is the victim, and the newly minted "Wildlife Officers" of the DFG, whose job is described as "protecting habitat" are toting guns and tasers along with their ticket books to basically encourage mountain bikers to just quit and go away.

Personally, I would like to see this stupidly implemented attempt at enforcement go away, especially in a time of severe budget deficits, when the expenditures to fund these gun-wielding ticket-goons have to be nothing short of extravagant.

But that doesn't seem to be the case, and I have seen at least one example of the local news media being employed to tell the public about the new menace to Mother Nature known as mountain bicycles.
When the media begins parroting the BS, in most cases the general public just swallows it, hook, line, and sinker.

chuckanado · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:40 am

^^^ Well said, Ray. Sad but true.

jSatch · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:40 am

Ray Dolor wrote:

.....And now the backlash occurs. Bicyclists are characterized as criminals, the environment is the victim, and the newly minted "Wildlife Officers" of the DFG, whose job is described as "protecting habitat" are toting guns and tasers along with their ticket books to basically encourage mountain bikers to just quit and go away...

agreed. unfortunately for the one part highlighted above, people like the KOM addict here, do in fact damage the environment. although 99% of the mtn bikers, and mtn bike organizations like sdmba and imba, are strongly in favor of protecting the environment and have organized efforts to make trails sustainable and enviro friendly, it is those few individuals that are held above all else as the depiction of mtn bikers.

spring canyon was open for many years without issue. the few trails i used to ride have been stravatized for speed. this has, and will continue, to come at a cost.

i'm not sure what can be done, but to use the previous highway analogy, if some blockhead has a 150mph joyride down 805 they don't close the highway to everyone because it is no longer safe, they fine the individual. so why not the same here?

ride00 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:50 am

I have called DF&G using the number given above. The woman helping me could not verify this to be true at all. She said that there is currently no record of such a closure. However, that she is not certain and that she needs to check with some of the more senior members to verify. She has taken my contact information and is going to get back to me with more information.

I mentioned to her that I was using the trails and ran into some others on the trail that told me of an impending trail closure in 3 weeks or so.

I'll let you know what I find out..

jSatch · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:51 am

Canaan wrote:

According to a City Council staffer today, the closure is going to be effected by DF&G. DF&G is going to have to hurry and get their signs up, because as of yesterday there were none.

there is a parallel thread at mtbr. there were suggestions to organize a large group ride, large enough to disturb the usual hiker, jogger population at mtrp for a short period, say at the ever popular cowels. hand out flyers to the effect:

"get me out of here,
please tell the rangers to keep spring canyon trails open"

also for locals to hand out flyers at the underpass of 52/spring regarding the new rules and when the next mtrp meeting is.

these actions may need to take place prior to signage. harder to reverse then, if it is not too late already.

Huntrologist · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:25 am

rob240z wrote:

Huntrologist wrote:

Is this the same Chris Campbell that works at Ashford University?

Indeed, it is.

USAC # 171242?

I'm sure the governing body would be interested to hear what he is up to.

The Chris Campbell Spring & Oak Show

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