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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:47 am 
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Thank you for the update..

I have been pretty worried that it would all be taken by the fire, and I don't know about you but there has been much speculation going on within the crew that I generally ride about what is burned and what was spared so its nice to see a concrete update.

The pictures with the dust devils in the back ground are really something else. Those really give you a feeling of how wild it can be after a fire. I haven't watched the videos yet but the picture of the dust devils in the background is really a great pic (4th picture).

Anyway.. Thanks for the update- I can't wait to get back out there and enjoy it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Anyone know the official status of Noble Canyon? Was thinking about riding there on Sunday but not sure if it's open again or not.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Quote:
Laguna Mountains Trial/Fire update from Ranger Will @ USFS. PLEASE RESPECT OUR FIREFIGHTERS BY STAYING OUT OF THEIR WAY AND OFF CLOSED TRAILS. -GG
Will--"Basically for bikers I would say that Penny Pines and Pioneer Mail are closed to the public right now, as we still have a lot of fire crews working in this area. If people want to park at the Sunset Meadows or Agua Dulce trailheads and use the southern portion of the BLT that is fine, but they will have to stay off the BLT section north of the lake where it heads to Penny Pines. People can just use the Filaree Flats Spur instead if they are trying to access Noble from the BLT. We've already been seeing some bike tracks through the closed areas, so just please ask everyone to respect these closures while we have fire crews working in the area and rehab process gets started."


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Great, thanks! :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Here's a couple of pic taken last Saturday at Laguna

Penny Pines Trail head
Image

Random pic from PP heading down to the meadow

Image

Image

Image

Image

The trails were not touched that I saw other than this connector

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:20 am 
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http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/may ... lm-laguna/

Not sure how BLM thinks they can withhold their own report just by calling it "unreleasable"

Quote:
An officer with the Bureau of Land Management is suspected of accidentally starting last summer’s Chariot fire in East County’s Laguna Mountains, state fire officials say in a report released Thursday to U-T San Diego.

The fire consumed more than 7,000 acres and 149 structures in the Cleveland National Forest, including much of the historic Al Bahr Shriner’s camp.

The state report says the fire probably started when brush got caught in the undercarriage of a Jeep driven by BLM field Officer Jason Peters as he drove along the desert floor. It mentions another possibility — that a pickup truck spotted in the area that afternoon may have been the cause — but says no additional evidence was found to support that theory.

Peters — who initially said he didn’t arrive on the scene until after the blaze began — has refused to cooperate with investigators since the early days of the investigation, the report said.

The BLM conducted its own investigation into the incident, but is refusing to release the results. A BLM spokesman declined to comment Thursday on Peters’ status with the federal agency.

The most destructive wildfire in the county last year, the Chariot fire began July 6 and burned for more than a week before it was extinguished July 15. Almost all of the damage was done within a few hours on July 8 in the Shriner’s camp when the fire swept up a canyon and crossed Sunrise Highway.

The Shriners have already filed claims against the BLM based on the group’s own investigation, which concluded that Peters accidentally started the fire, and then apparently tried to conceal his involvement.

In a statement released Thursday, Shriner’s leader George Geanoulis said, “We all know that no information will restore our beloved camp, historic buildings, cherished homes and lost memories, but this … report will help us and our legal advisers navigate the future and what it may hold for Al Bahr Shrine Camp.”

The 318-page Cal Fire report, prepared by Capt. Kelly Gallaher, said the agency explored all possible causes of the fire, and eliminated all but two. A couple witnesses saw a pickup truck in the desert that day, but no further information could be developed about the truck or its occupant and no evidence was found indicating it was responsible.

The report suggests the more likely scenario is that “the fire originated from the vehicle driven by Jason Peters going through tall brush, either dropping burning brush into a receptive fuel bed, or a potential failed fuel line spreading fire on a receptive fuel bed.”

The document describes Peters under a section titled “suspect.”

The ramifications of the findings could be costly to the BLM. Damage caused to the Shriner’s camp was massive — in the millions of dollars — and the cost of fighting the fire, which began July 6 and wasn’t extinguished until July 15, exceeded $10 million for which the state could seek reimbursement.

The report details how Peters Jeep caught on fire in the parking lot of the Butterfield Ranch Campground the afternoon of July 6. Peters’ initial incident report is included in the Cal Fire report. In it, he says he saw smoke in the distance and went to investigate, at times driving over heavy brush. He then drove to the Butterfield Ranch store, parked his Jeep and went inside leaving the vehicle idling. When he came back outside his Jeep was on fire.

BLM Public Affairs Specialist Martha Maciel issued a statement Thursday evening that said:

“The Bureau of Land Management has been cooperating with Cal Fire on their investigation of the Chariot Fire and we appreciate their work in completing this complex investigation. We are reviewing the investigation report and working with the U.S. Department of Justice to establish a path forward. As a land management agency, one of our highest priorities is protecting human safety, property and resources and we will adhere to our core values of public service, integrity and accountability in any actions taken.”

She said by phone that the BLM couldn’t comment on its own internal investigation “concerning matters that are not releasable.”

The report says photographic and other evidence shows that the fire began in four separate areas on the desert floor separated by hundreds of feet. Three of the fires eventually burned together to create the Chariot fire.

On Tuesday, Cal Fire Director Ken Pimlott, who was in San Diego for a wildfire awareness week news conference, said the BLM has cooperated fully with his department but that Peters, upon the advice of his attorney, “has not been made available to us.”

He said the results of the investigation will be presented to the appropriate authorities. “There are other processes going on on the federal side,” Pimlott said. “We are moving forward.”


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:38 am 
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Good find evdog. Let's see how this plays out.
Maybe it would be best, due to their destructive nature, to keep BLM off all land in California :thumbsup: :domo: :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:22 am 
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thats just irony at its finest

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:12 am 
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IDIOTS! Bureaucrats suck our money, take over our land, damage our land with vehicles we purchased for them, then attempt to hide their negligent actions from those who pay their bills (us).

This is all done while the same class of bureaucrats tells us which additional tracts of our land we can no longer access and how evil we (i.e., humans who are not part of the exempt political Left) are for causing global warming (or whatever the latest buzzword is for "weather").

Enough is enough. Throw the bums out!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:01 am 
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Update article from the U-T:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr ... ep-laguna/

Quote:
MOUNT LAGUNA — A design flaw in the 2009 Chrysler Jeep Wrangler may have contributed to the start of the Chariot fire that destroyed almost 150 cabins and other structures in the Cleveland National Forest two years ago, an amended lawsuit contends.

The initial lawsuit, filed last year by Al Bahr Shriners of San Diego County, seeks $20 million in damages from the Bureau of Land Management and alleges a BLM field officer accidentally started the fire after brush became stuck in his Jeep’s undercarriage and ignited. Many of the buildings destroyed in the blaze were at a historic camp owned by the Shriners.

Earlier this year, the group amended its suit to include not just the U.S. government, but also Chrysler Corp.

Shriners attorney John Fiske says in the complaint that Chrysler recalled its 2010 Jeep Wrangler two years ago to replace a skid “plate” with a skid “bar” — a change meant to reduce the amount of debris that could get caught up under the vehicle and potentially ignite. An investigation by the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration found 12 fires reported in Wranglers from that model year were caused by skid plate debris.

Fiske says the 2010 Wrangler was very similar to the 2009 model and that the Chinese government recently recalled all Wranglers made from 2007 to 2010 for the same reason.

Chrysler hasn’t responded to the amended complaint, but company spokesman Michael Palese said Tuesday that the 2009 Wrangler “meets or exceeds all applicable federal safety standards” and has an excellent safety record.

“Vehicle fires are very complex and often occur for reasons that have nothing to do with the vehicle involved,” Palese said. “Reasons such as poor maintenance, inadvertent ignition of external debris, etc., are common causes.”

Meanwhile, the U.S. Attorney’s Office says in court documents that the BLM officer who was driving the Jeep when the fire started — Jason Peters — no longer works for the federal agency.

A spokeswoman for the office confirmed Peters’ departure but could not provide more information.

Calls to the BLM were not returned.

Cal Fire investigators last year issued a 318-page report concluding that Peters accidentally started the fire on July 6, 2013, when brush became caught in the Jeep’s undercarriage and ignited. Several small fires followed as Peters drove around the desert with fuel leaking from a burnt fuel line. The fires burned together and became the Chariot fire, which consumed 7,000 acres over a week.

A short time after the start of the Chariot fire, Peters’ Jeep burned in the parking lot of the Butterfield Ranch Campground.

Peters told investigators the Jeep fire was unconnected to the desert fire and initially said he didn’t arrive on the scene until after the desert was ablaze.

During the nearly yearlong Cal Fire investigation, Peters refused to cooperate with investigators, the report noted. The BLM conducted an investigation but did not publicly release the results.

Peters, who apparently lives in New York state, could not be reached for comment.

On the third day of the Chariot blaze, it crossed over Sunrise Highway and burned the Shriners camp, including an 87-year-old lodge, dining hall, caretaker cabin, two dormitories, and five rental cabins. It also destroyed about 100 small cabins that were privately owned by the Shriners.

In June, the Shriners filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking $20 million in damages. Although the complaint originally listed the BLM and Peters as defendants, it has been amended and instead names the United States of America, the Chrysler Group, Soutar’s Auto Group and Mohave Auto Group South. Fiske said the changes were made because the BLM is a federal agency and, because Peters was an employee at the time, the federal government is responsible for his actions.

Fiske said Chrysler was added because of the design flaw. The auto groups are named because one of them sold the Jeep to the BLM. A change in ownership required both be listed, Fiske said.

In fire recovery efforts, the Shriners camp has been cleaned up but no other work has been done at the site that for nearly a century was a weekend and summer retreat for tens of thousands of Shriners.

After the fire, the U.S. Forest Service suspended the special-use permit first issued to the Shriners in 1924 to create the camp on a 22.5-acre parcel within the Cleveland National Forest.

A Shriners spokeswoman said discussions about being able to rebuild and have the permit reinstated have gone slowly and it could be years before the Forest Service makes a final decision.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:13 am 
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"Cal Fire investigators last year issued a 318-page report concluding that Peters accidentally started the fire on July 6, 2013, when brush became caught in the Jeep’s undercarriage and ignited. Several small fires followed as Peters drove around the desert with fuel leaking from a burnt fuel line. The fires burned together and became the Chariot fire, which consumed 7,000 acres over a week."

Interpreted as:
"Yeah yeah yeah... this is all Chryslers fault. We at the BLM should be able to continue to hire brain-dead idiot employees that drive around in a jeep that is on fire through the dry brush."

Jeez, don't they have a fire extinguisher in a jeep? And the sense to stop if it is on fire?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:48 am 
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^^^^^ well-said, Paul.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:35 pm 
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Yep. Skid plates are not a design flaw. They have worked well for decades to prevent rock damage. A "skid bar" might trap less brush, but it's the driving through high brush without then checking under your vehicle that is the negligent act, not the skid plate design.

Okay, I paused in my reply to google to see if the Jeep owners manual contains a warning about dry brush, which I bet it does. But then I found this, which gives credence to a design flaw lawsuit. Not skid plates per se, but skid plates tight against a catalytic converter. Okay, not a good design, so they recalled it. Does not the BLM follow up recall notices on their vehicles...? Hmmm.

http://www.torquenews.com/106/chrysler-recalls-2010-jeep-wrangler-over-fire-risk

Edit: Okay, pardon my lack of reading comprehension, I guess the BLM Jeep was a 2009, not recalled. Back to the Peters effed up, lied about it, and then the BLM figured that out, but won't admit it - theory. Lawyers and bureaucrats at work..it's the American way.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:44 pm 
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Update: I just got back from the US Attorney's office in Seattle, after giving an almost 2-hour deposition regarding this fire and my pictures of it. It seems that almost four years later, they "discovered" my pics on the SDMBA forum, contacted me and asked if I had the originals or any other pics. I guess I was the only person who took pictures that day, especially during the early hours of the fire. As it turns out, I still have all the original, unaltered pics that I had downloaded from my phone onto my laptop, which I regularly backed up to an external HDD. When I uploaded a selection of them to Picasaweb (now Google Photos) I had it set to reduce the size/resolution. But the originals were still at a fairly high resolution and I had taken over 90 pictures that day (not all of them of the fire and smoke, but I gave them copies of the whole shebang).

I sat in a conference room here in Seattle, in front of a video cam, two big TV screens, with a lapel mic, a video tech and court reporter. At the other end in San Diego were the Asst. US Attorney, and attorneys for the Shriners, Chrysler/Jeep, and several insurance companies. We went through a few dozen printed copies of my photos, stamped as exhibit such-and-such, and questioned about each one: did you take this picture, does it represent what you saw that day, did you alter it in any way, etc. Since they were taken on a phone with GPS, each one had its metadata intact (EXIF for you geeks) with date, time, lat/lon/elevation coordinates, camera model and settings. Did you talk to anyone that day? Were you contacted by Law Enforcement? How far do you think you were from the site of the fire? Did you see any vehicles driving around the desert with flaming brush trapped underneath? Could you see any more of the fire beyond what's shown in the pictures? Did it look like just one big fire or several smaller fires? What color was the smoke when you first saw it?

All in all, an interesting experience. I've got no dog in this fight, and I answered everything as honestly and thoroughly as I could. Hopefully justice will prevail.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Interesting, Chuck, thanks for the update!

I hope the attorneys pay you a commission on all the extra fees they'll get to charge to analyze the photos and the depo!


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